Rita: Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome to this week’s episode. Yes, you’re not wrong. This is a different voice than usual. This is Rita, your producer, tuning in to introduce you this week’s episode. This week’s episode was a conversation that Stacy had with the incredible richelle Fredson on LinkedIn just a few weeks back. Richelle is a book proposal coach and together with Stacy, they had a conversation about the magic behind a great book. They dove into strategy and creativity and it was such a powerful and fun conversation that we decided we had to bring this to the pod. You also might be wondering, why am I the one welcoming you to this week’s episode? We are currently very busy over here. Stacy is getting ready to present for the Women in Publishing Summit later on today.

Rita: She is doing a presentation on how to increase your writing productivity and get into flow faster. This is a topic that Stacy loves to teach and she’s super excited and energized to be presenting later on to the attendees of the event. We are also getting ready for a new cohort of idea to draft that will be kicking off in April. That’s right. Our group coaching program is back for the first edition of 2025. We are super excited to welcome new students to get to know them, get to know their stories, learn about their book ideas. It’s such an honor to witness this process and we are super excited. Without any further ado, I will let you dive into this week’s episode and I hope you enjoyed as much as I did. And who knows, I might be back with you very soon.

Stacy: Welcome. I am so excited to get to do this live with you, Richelle. We get to finally come together in.

Richelle: A live broadcast anytime I get to be with you is a good time.

Stacy: So, yes, I know we’re going to be talking about strategy and creativity, marrying those two things. Relle is a book proposal expert. I am a book writing expert. And so we’re really both at different stages in some ways, but it’s all so interconnected. We’ve been talking about having a conversation like this for a long time. We’ve been on each other’s podcasts. And I think specifically why the two of us are coming together is because we have such a similar, I think, heart for the clients that we work with approach to how we think about books and their utility in the world and the impact that the authors can make through their work. And so that’s why we get a talk today and we’re coming together to have this conversation around how do you bring together so strategy and creativity?

Stacy: Where’s that magic in writing a great book? So, Richelle, shall we jump in and make this happen?

Richelle: Yeah, let’s do it. I mean, I think that strategy and creativity create the most beautiful intersection for really successful books. And my hunch is the people that are with us today or listening at another time have either a story that they really want to share or wisdom that they know can be really impactful in the world. And sometimes this process can feel really overwhelming. So I hope that what we can do today is bring some levity and hope and inspiration to what can be a tricky process of book publishing. So I’m excited to be here. Do we feel fully introduced or I think.

Stacy: How about this? Do you want to just talk a little bit about your work? Because I know that anybody who’s maybe in my world and is just meeting you, I’ve already told them you’re a book proposal coach. But sometimes people don’t even know that’s a thing. And if they don’t, then they’re just learning that this is an option that they have. So maybe you could tell a little bit about what you do and who you love to work with.

Richelle: I love this because people often think that the book proposal is like the homework assignment that they must do right on. On the book journey. But I’ve been in publishing for over 20 years and held a number of executive positions inside of a publisher. And while I was on both the front end in acquisitions and on the back end of the process through marketing and pr, my favorite thing to do was to really find gems within people’s work. So both from speaking with authors who had the dream of writing a book and kind of finding that nugget to finding the nugget that we’re going to pitch out into the world for TV, media, everything else.

Richelle: But in 2018, shortly after having my son and reevaluating time as we do so I really just wanted to hone in on that focal point of like, how do we create a really strategic book idea for people that’s going to hold them through the next five to seven years of their career or share their story in a way that feels really good to them and makes sense for where they’re headed. And so that is when I really kind of whittled down to the book proposal work and there’s talk about strategy and creativity. That is where it really begins. And I know we’re going to get into that. There’s these sort of peaks and values of strategy all the way through the book publishing process.

Richelle: But the proposal is really where you start to hone that muscle and where writers become authors is what I heard an agent say once, which I think is a brilliant way to put it.

Stacy: I love that. I just spoke with somebody actually this week who I met and sent over to you. Based on where she was in her stage and she was so happy with the process of working with you. I got to see that the output of that work. And I know you’ve had a huge impact on so many authors and helping them really create book proposals that are reflective of their story and their message and set them up to be able to get that book hopefully in publishers hands and certainly out into the world.

Richelle: Yeah. Thank you. And you too. I mean, strategy is sort of the unspoken part of the book process. Right. When we think about writing a book, a lot of people focus on craf process but the strategic brain is a part of this process that we don’t often acknowledge either early enough in the process or people feel scared of it. Right. I’m not, I’m. I’m not that type of a person. Like I’m more of an artist, I’m more of a craft writer. So when you think about how strategy plays into writing a book in its entirety, you know, what have you learned along the way?

Stacy: Well, it’s interesting because I think that a lot of times we think that those two things are at odds. If you’re overly strategic, it doesn’t leave space for creativity and if you’re overly creative, it doesn’t leave space for strategy. But I think that having actually the strategy on the front end enables you to be more creative and Actually creates more space for you to be present in the creative process.

Richelle: I love that. Yeah, I agree with that. Yep.

Stacy: Yeah, I’m sure that you see that as well in your work. I know you take people through a structured process to create their book proposals. In my work as a book coach, which is a little different. So anybody that’s just meeting me, maybe through Rachelle’s ecosystem, when I work with authors, I’m taking them through idea to draft. So I’m helping them create that first draft and then understand what the next steps are to get that book out into the world really narrowly focused on that creative process, on the production of this draft. And what I find a lot is that when people are, they’re starting on this journey, they’re beginning the book writing process, they have a lot of starts and stops and they might get really inspired and start creating and then they find themselves getting their well is drained.

Stacy: They don’t know like, what else to write or where to go, or they sometimes don’t even make it past the first few paragraphs or first page. And I think a lot of that, not I think I know because I’ve been doing this for 15 years, is because they don’t have that space. They don’t create that space to really think about their vision and clarify their unique story and message, understand their specific audience, and then create a really great book outline to enable them in the creative process. They’ve done all this planning, all this organization, plus our brains are really cool. When we sleep, our brains knit together ideas and it helps form new ideas that we can’t just magically create. It happens because of all the work that we do on that strategy side. So it really enables this creative process later on.

Stacy: And then the other piece of that in the writing process is giving enough space and time. So when we’re working on an outline for a book, a lot of the authors that I work with, they want to get in and just like they want all of the education that I’ve created, like right now, and they want to go through all of it and do all of it. And I’m like, no, I’m only giving you this one this week. You can’t even bite size stuff. You have to think. You have to create the space and create that strategy. So I’m curious because in your stage, it’s like we’re so. We overlap in a lot of ways and how we work with people, but when somebody comes into you to work with you and they have an idea.

Stacy: How do you think about the strategy and the creative side with the book proposal?

Richelle: Yeah, yeah. I think that first of all, you. You really nailed it with the outline and the strategy involved in that, because it’s. Sorry, if you hear banging, there’s construction above me, New York City life. But the outline is like the guardrails. Right. It’s like the blueprint for crafting a really competitive book. So the work and the strategy and the creativity come to play first in that outline. And so if I take it a step further back, when people come to me, my goal is always to find and fill the gap between what the author is desperate to write and what people actually need from them, because there’s almost always a gap. So we often, as authors and writers, enter the book process and go, here’s what I want to write.

Richelle: Because we’re thinking about what would feel good, or we’re looking at it from our lens only. And that’s not a fault. That’s just who we are as humans. When you engage in thought partnership with someone like us to guide that process, we understand marketability. We understand what’s going to live on the shelf for us long as possible. We know what’s going to light agents and publishers up when they see this material. So the first step for me is hearing and listening what is at the core of what this author wants to do and to marry it with the wisdom that I know about the industry and what readers might want from this person. And sometimes that takes a little bit of research. It’s like looking under the hood of our social media.

Richelle: Our newsletter lists our, you know, where we’re speaking and what feedback has been. So I think it’s important to get that tangible data of what people really want from us so that we can actually create a book idea that’s going to last.

Stacy: One of the things I love about that inquiry phase and this like, looking under the hood phase is it’s also answering a question that I don’t know about you, but I get this from nearly every aspiring author I talk with, which is, do you think this is any good?

Richelle: Of course, yeah.

Stacy: And what I’m hearing from you is part of that strategic mindset early on is you are going through and validating it. You’re doing the research, you’re considering what I call in my work, and maybe you call it something similar or different, but the core message of their work, and you’re really investigating the audience. You’re getting crystal clarity around that so that they also have some. Something that they Are. There’s also an emotional connection, I think for the audience when they’re in the writing process. When you’re creating and thought partnering with someone on this book proposal process, I imagine that similar to the first draft process, they hit roadblocks. And those roadblocks are. I’m sure there’s some that come up that are real life things that happen, illness, you know, job loss, all kinds of stuff, Seen all of it.

Stacy: But a lot of it is actually mindset, I imagine, for your clients. Tell me about that and how you think about that creative process in, you know, the mindset and I guess the reframing. How do you reframe it up for your authors?

Richelle: Yeah, you’re right in the sense that it’s that. So it’s emotional. Right. This is a really intimate, emotional process to put any type of work on the page. And I always say like the hardest part of creativity is that you’re sending something out into the world unchaperoned. Eventually you’ll be releasing this book that is a piece of you out into the world and it’s going to go make its impact and you don’t know what it’s going to be and you don’t have control over that. All we can control is what we create in the here and now for this product. I tend to get a lot of folks who worry about their topic already being covered and I always kind of put my industry hat on in those moments and say, number one, there’s space for everybody.

Richelle: Number two, the fact that there are already books out there means that publishers are buying them and they’re publishing them and there’s a proven sales track record, which is a good thing. Right. Our job is to figure out what your lane is within that conversation. So I think there’s a big misconception when developing book ideas that you have to create something like brand spanking new and you don’t. What you want to do is take a tried and true idea and bring your lens and your fresh take on it. That’s what gives publishers ease, right? They’re going, we’re risk averse as an industry. We want to make sure bets. So when we look at the idea and we look at like kind of reframing our emotional hangups within this process. It’s okay, that’s great that there are books out there about this.

Richelle: Here’s how I’m doing it differently or here’s how my story and my lived experience make this different. We don’t need more letters after our name, more credentials, more Certifications, more things. What we need to do is bring ourself to the work. And that’s often enough of a differentiator in a lot of genres. So I think it’s just I constantly remind people that they already have everything that they need and it’s just a matter of bringing shape to it so that we can go out into the world and reach the right people. What do you think from your end? I’m curious because I don’t touch a full manuscript with a ten foot pole. Don’t even. This is why Stacy and I are really great pals. Because I cannot. That is not my expertise.

Richelle: Like give me those, you know, proposals at the core are pitch documents. Right. It’s like your shark take moment for the book. That’s, that’s what we’re doing there. But when you kind of dive into 60, 70, 80,000 words of something, what are sort of the. The misconceptions and the emotional components that happen there for writers?
Stacy: Well, a big one that I see. So I’m usually almost always actually in the creation process with authors. So we’re starting from word one to the final word and we’re journeying through that. What I find almost without exception is that the book, the author kind of discovers their voice and really understands the book around chapter four. Sometimes this is really consistent and it’s almost never for sure in chapter one. Chapter one almost always gets rewritten. That’s the same with my own book. So I have authored, co authored or ghostwritten 18 books. Every single one of those, I’ve rewritten the first chapter completely. Very little of it lived into the next chapter.

Richelle: It makes perfect sense to me.

Stacy: Yeah. Yep. So thinking of those first chapters as a discovery process and a playground to explain, experiment with your voice, try different types of storytelling, test out the humor if that is appropriate with your book. So it’s really giving yourself some of that space to play and kind of discover your voice. And it’s usually somewhere around chapter four, give or take, that the book really starts to become a thing that you feel like you can have a sense of what it is. It becomes its. I don’t know exactly how to phrase this, but there’s like anchoring in and a sense that the authors start to get around that time that this book is becoming something and they start to feel good as they get there. Then they do hit there’s a maybe.

Stacy: I wonder if there’s a different abandonment point in book proposals, but in draft creation, it’s 20,000 words is when authors, it’s kind of this known point that authors give up because it’s not quite halfway, but you’ve done a ton of work and you’re looking ahead and going, oh my gosh, I’m not even halfway done. How am I ever going to get this done? Oh, yeah. And I have to edit it. So for them, I think it’s having that awareness in the beginning that there’s an exploration that needs to happen and anchoring that happens can give them some confidence to know that they are developing as a writer and as a creative person and discovering their voice through that process. And so by the time they get there, hopefully with that mindset, it changes a lot for them.

Richelle: I love that you said playground too, because I. This, we agree on this so much. Like, this is the whole point of this work. And I talk about this in book proposal work all the time. We’re like in the sandbox and we’re sifting through things until we come across something where we’re like, oh, that’s it. I like that. Let’s play with that a little longer. I think people step into the book process and feel as though they should already have some type of concrete awareness of what this thing is going to be. And that’s just not how it works. We get into the sandbox and we play and we play continuously. And to your point of sort of that 20,000 word mark, it’s very similar in chapter summaries, in book proposals. Right where we’re writing, we’re.

Richelle: We know what the chapter is going to be and we’re writing into it just a little bit. And that’s really where I ask people to feel into and acknowledge what’s happening in their body when they’re writing those summaries because they can feel, oof. I think maybe this is too much for one chapter. Oh, I don’t know if I could write 20 pages on this particular topic. And we begin to mold and mold. So a book proposal is like, never done until it’s done. It’s always in motion, it’s always nimble. But where people tend to like is at promotion and marketing. Like the. When we have to talk about the community that we’ve built to bring this book into the world, people tend to get a little freaked out about it. Of course, I have calming methods for that.

Richelle: But yeah, I think the idea that creating books is playing. It’s strategy. Yes. But you’re playing with each strategy along the way.

Stacy: I love that perspective. And I also I like to remind people this is true in book proposals and it’s true in book writing that you have never done this before. It is a brand new skill. So imagine if you’ve never taken piano lessons and you sat down at the piano and expected to be able to play a concerto with, you know, just off the bat. People are so hard on themselves and kind of forget that we’re humans that have to learn something new. And maybe especially if they are a practiced writer in any sense, like they’ve been writing articles or maybe contributing some think pieces, they kind of expect that they’ll be able to come into this process and just write a book.

Stacy: But actually this whole organizing part of it, that’s a huge skill that many of us are not using anywhere actually in our lives. We have to take all of our ideas that have been percolating. Maybe we haven’t been capturing them very well until just recent, you know, recent weeks or months as we start to think about the book. Then a lot of times we have lots of pieces of paper or notes or voice memos or things down post its journals, you know, and then suddenly we have to be able to pull this together into something like we don’t ever do that. And so having some, I think, patience with the process. And to your point, I love the sandbox.

Stacy: That is such a good metaphor of sifting, of like finding those things that are like, you can hold it up and go, aha, yes, you know, but it does take that. And then also we’re stretching our brains, we’re stretching our focus. Most of us on a daily basis do not focus intently on something for more than 15, 30 minutes, like really deeply focused. Now we need to push that. That’s a whole other thing we have to develop for ourselves. So there’s so much to this that I think going into it, if you can have this mindset of I’m going to learn something new, I’m developing a new skill set, I’m pushing myself in this new way. Okay, I can be gentle on myself and I can be open to. I often tell my clients, it’s like wading through the muck in the mud.

Stacy: You have to wade through that and you kind of just have to be a little dirty and sometimes it’s dark and foggy too, and you’re kind of just sludging through and then eventually you find your way and it gets a little clearer and. But you can only. You have to go through the muck in the mud. Like, there is no.

Richelle: This is also very hard to do alone. This. I. Not to throw back to thought partnership again. But, but when you’re learning something new, like, if I wanted to go build a house, I’m not going to just print out like a blueprint from the Internet and be like, let’s grab our hammers. Guys like you need help to develop this skill. And to your point of like the mud, you have to find comfort in the messiness because that’s the process. It’s not going to feel like crisp and clean and like, check the box, we did it. It’s going to feel messy. And on that same sort of side of the coin is you have to surrender whatever timeline you have for yourself to like publish book. Right? Because you have to allow the discovery to happen.

Richelle: And if you cut that short, if you don’t engage in the play, if you don’t get in the sandbox, you’re missing so much of the process. And it’s very likely when people rush through book process, by the way, I’ve seen it a number of times, I’m sure you have too, where they look back and go, I would have done it differently. And so like, this is a. There’s permanence in books. We’re not like throwing together, you know, an online course where you can go in and tune up a module and rerecord something. There is, this is legacy. This is important stuff we’re doing. Like, let it take the time it needs to develop.

Stacy: Okay. I have to tell you my working theory around this rushing. Okay, this is my working theory. I believe that this desire to rush and get it done stems from lack of self trust. So we’ve had this goal for however long to write this book. We make a decision, we stake a claim and say we’re going to do it. And I think that there’s a lack of self trust in the belief that I’m going to follow through on this if it takes a long time. So I want to get in and do it and get it done and out because I know if I work on this crazy tight timeline, I’m just going to be all in. I’m going to get it done and out to market. This is my working there. I’d love to know your thoughts on that.

Richelle: I think that’s very, very true. I also think we’re like a culture of people. And I see this more with women, where we’re looking around at everyone else and going, oh, it looks like they did it. And they did it easily. Yeah. Oh, they’ve got a book on the shelf like they did. We make assumptions about other people’s processes. And I think part of that is because people aren’t really transparent about this process and how, you know, how hard it was for them or where they found joy, you know, where there was ease, where they really appreciated the learning. We’re not talking about these things. And so we look around and we go, oh, my colleagues or my friends, they have a book on the shelf. Like, I have to hurry and do it too. Which, and I agree. I think we’re not.

Richelle: This is like being comfortable in the mess.

Stacy: Yeah.

Richelle: That’s self trust. So I, I love this theory.

Stacy: Oh, that is so good.

Richelle: I think you should write about this theory, Stacy.

Stacy: Okay. Okay. Add it to my content ideation. Okay. One of the things that I have noticed about you and the work that you do is that you show up and you take action. I mean, I’ve seen this. We haven’t known each other for a super long time, but in the amount of time that I’ve known you, I’ve seen that you go after things, you take action, you launch the thing, you take action. I feel I can say that about you as a person. And one of the things that we both know from our clients who are successful is that they show up and they are consistently showing up. They are disciplined. Sometimes, like I said earlier, things happen, but they give themselves grace and they get back on the train and they keep showing up.

Stacy: And you know, to your point, on this perception of other people’s success, we can often look at that and think, oh, they’re so talented, they’re so beautiful, they’re so lucky, they’re so whatever. But we don’t often see all of the work that goes behind the scenes. And I would love to hear from you if you have a client story that you can share of or just an example of somebody who was able to stick with it and kept showing up and were able to get that. Those results at the end of it.

Richelle: Oh, gosh, so many come to mind. I’m going to share too quickly. I think this also will show that we’re again, I think, a culture of people who think that we just have to do everything alone and that no one else, no one out there is getting help for these things. And I often start my. Any like, workshop I’m doing or on my podcast where I’m like, if you look at the books on your shelf that you know and love, like there’s probably about four to eight people who have touched that book to make it happen.

Stacy: Yeah.

Richelle: And so if you think it’s just happening, it’s not. People are getting support at many different phases of the process. So I have a client in mind who was part of my blueprint program and she created a really great idea. She knocked it out of the park on her proposal. She shopped it to agents and the agent shopping is slow. Right. It’s like you’re submitting, you’re waiting for answers. It’s just, they’re busy people. That’s just how it goes. Trying to not fall into the story of it’s taking a long time because it’s not good. They’re not liking what I read. Or you get a rejection, oh God, it’s me. My idea is bad, I’m not worthy. So a big piece of it is talking to people about how their worth is not attached to an agent or publisher’s response.

Richelle: Like they’re making decisions about what they have experienced doing well. It’s not a judgment of your work. So this client kind of went through this agent process months and months and months, got a great agent and the agent said, I love this material, but I want you to go teach it more. I want you to go out into the world and show people what you have. And this is a misconception for authors because we think we’ve got to keep it all under lock and key, close to the vest. But what publishers actually want is that visual proof that you’re out in the world doing the thing. So she took two years with that finished book proposal and with that agent, and she went and built an arm of her business that supported this. And then offers came in, that was it.

Richelle: But that in total was about a four year span. And sometimes that’s what it takes. I have another client who was already out in the world teaching the thing. So starting from a different position, got outreach from a publisher, we’d love to give you a book deal. She didn’t know anything about the industry. She took the call, had a conversation and then went, maybe I should get like a second opinion. Found her way to me via Instagram and I said the same thing, that I will preach until my last breath, pause and do the book proposal. Figure out what you actually want to write. What’s going to serve people? Like books are in service to something. Let’s figure out what that is with me or anyone. Like, this was not a high pressure sales call, but I was like, please do the work.

Richelle: Because the book proposal is the biggest piece of self advocacy that you can have when going out and looking for that agent and publisher. You want an aligned partner. So she put the work in for a book proposal, even though there was the carrot dangling of a book offer waiting for her, got an agent and ended up getting 12 times the deal originally offered.

Stacy: Whoa, that’s amazing.

Richelle: Because she took four months to build out a book proposal. And that deal was life changing. And I have many stories like that where it’s like, put in the time, take the time it takes to develop this idea and make it great for you and for everybody else. And that will bring the right aligned partners to the table.

Stacy: I love that story. That’s so good. Me too. The timeline. I’m really, I really appreciate that you shared the timeline with the first example. That’s not what people want to hear.

Richelle: I know, at all.

Stacy: Somebody, somebody’s listening to this going, do people log off, ask what you’re telling me right now? Come on. But it’s true. It’s true. It’s how every single thing in life actually works. Unless you know. But even like I, I just had in my mind, Chapel Roan just popped into my head. She’s. Yeah, she had this like meteoric rise last year, but she had been working for 10 years before, before she had a hit. And we just don’t talk about that enough and we don’t really recognize that. And even I don’t think that people do this intentionally when they’re out promoting their work. But, but even as authors, we just don’t talk about all of the work. The pounding, the pavement, the digital pavement, the tears. How many tears have you shared with clients? I have shared a lot with my clients. It’s hard work.

Stacy: There’s so much to it. But it’s also what makes it so meaningful on the other side of it. That’s why it is a life changing experience for so many people. Yeah, the book on the Other side is really great. It opens a ton of doors, obviously. But actually I imagine in the book proposal process, and certainly I’ve seen that in the book draft process, it requires so much of you and there’s a consistency to that and there’s a showing up anyway to that and there’s a, I got derailed, but I gotta get back at it. And all of this, plus the self discovery and this sharpening of your language and this clarifying of ideas and pushing yourself to communicate in a way that other people can Resonate with, be inspired by or learn from or whatever your book is doing.

Stacy: There’s so much to that. That is just incredible. How could you do that in 60 days? You know, some of the courses out there are.

Richelle: Because that’s what we think everyone else is doing. Oh, my gosh. Don’t get me started. Don’t get me started. That’s like a whole other convers.

Stacy: I get targeted on those ads.

Richelle: Oh, me too.

Stacy: Yeah.

Richelle: So funny. I’m like, wrong audience. So we have this thing in my house where I. I love to cook. It’s like my therapy. And sometimes I do something experimental and it’s. I taste it’s terrible. And I put it in the garbage. And we call it hot trash. That’s the writing process. Like, a lot of it’s going to feel like hot, steaming garbage. And that’s how you get to the good stuff. Right. And so you’re built. Like you said earlier, you’re building a new skill to. We have to take the pressure off ourselves that it’s going to be, like, perfect and every word on the page is going to sound great. Like, how many times do you write a newsletter or blog and you’re like, I don’t like it. That. And you refine it. That’s the whole point.

Richelle: But to try and do that in a silo is nearly impossible. I’ve, I’ve. I’ve witnessed my clients, we have a shared Google Doc writing something, and I see the cursor blinking and I know they’re thinking about it. And then they highlight it and delete something. That was so good. And so the first step is don’t assume everything’s hot garbage. Like, let it marinate, let it sit. Get another opinion on it from a professional. But don’t assume that everything you’re writing is rough and then let the rough stuff evolve. I mean, I’ll get in there. I’m like, put that back. I loved that statement. And I think the more of ourselves and our energy and our voice and our personality we can put onto the page, the better. I’m a very, like, feelings writer.

Richelle: And so I just think that people often think they have to mimic a sound or a tone or a format that already exists, and they end up, like, compromising their own voice. Like, I don’t think your writer’s voice is something you need to find. Like, it’s our. You have it. Can a professional like, you refine it, develop it, make it make more sense? Yeah, but I think that we just put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect right out of the gate.

Stacy: And we forget to have fun. I think especially for people that are coming from like corporate environments or you know, they’ve maybe they’ve done academia or they’ve written papers in academia or you know, so far they’ve just worked in business settings or these environments where language is very stripped down.

Richelle: Yeah.

Stacy: I find that they often won’t even write down whatever great ideas in their head. Like they stop themselves before they ever get it on the page. One of the things that I’m doing with my clients is highlighting and amp just showing them. Like your voice was so strong here, I heard you here. And helping them see that and encouraging them to lean in and okay, here’s where your storytelling is really rich. I’m missing a few things here. So when you continue writing, don’t go back and edit. I always tell people like please do not do that. Just keep, let it be, keep writing. But here are some things you can start to experiment with and play with. Let’s work in some more sensory details into your storytelling. You’re really funny. That came through here. Let’s play with that. Let’s see how that comes through.

Stacy: And please just lean into that and play with that. I think that is such a big part of it. And you’re right, it’s there already. It should be. Your voice is, I often describe this as like you amplified. It’s just turning up the volume on you and really helping it come through. Probably a little bit more refined than you might be in a normal speaking but it’s there and I love that mindset.

Richelle: That’s why our work is so fun. Like we really get to witness people, number one, doing something that they’ve have questioned whether they can do or not. But we get to help them like really make impact. I, I one of my clients came back to me after her book publishes. She said your fingerprint is on this book. Like your fingerprint is baked into so many books that are out in the world. Like you were part of this. And like there’s in you too. Like there’s no better feeling than that to me because I know we work with a lot of change makers and mission driven people. And so I think that like when you allow yourself to just experience that discovery as a writer, like your whole life changes. You get confidence in places you didn’t have it before. But it’s not innate.

Richelle: It’s like people think they should just have it a lot of the time or people will get on my zoom screen and go, I want to write a book, but I’m not a writer. And I’m like, if I had a dollar, I wouldn’t be on the zoom screen beyond my yacht. You don’t need to be right. Like, like you can get better at this. There are also like a number of resources to help solve that problem. But I just think I’m curious like if people walked away from today and go, how do I begin? Just like, what’s the thing? Where do I begin? What’s that answer for you?

Stacy: Okay, I’m going to come back to that, but I want to comment on the fingerprint piece and I’ll come. Radical practical strategies today. Actually I was working on my newsletter. I send out two a week. One’s like a reflective piece and then one’s more of a typical newsletter. And in our more typical newsletter we always celebrate authors. We celebrate them when their books come out or their book versaries. And so I was celebrating one of my clients book versaries today as I was writing and it was really cool to remember this process with her. So she went through one of my programs. So we didn’t work together in a one to one private coaching, but she came through a program.

Stacy: And so I ended up reading her book actually at the hospital when my daughter had just been through a health situation and so she was okay. And it was finally like we’re in the good space. And so I was reading this book at the hospital and she mentioned our work in her book. Like she talked about my program and what an impact that it made on her. And I definitely was not expecting that as I was reading her book. And those are the kind of little moments that you and I get in that work that we do. We definitely don’t expect it. It’s always surprising, but it’s always so appreciated to see that we care so deeply and then that comes out and that that impact is made on our clients. So yeah, just, I love this for.

Richelle: I love this for us because it feels, it’s so nice, right? I’m a Leo, so I’m just gonna say that I think that too. Like, let’s talk about, we’ll come back to like the one thing people can do to begin but like the ripple effect of the confidence that comes in when you start to really craft the book. I’ve seen people start new arms of their business. I’ve seen people move to a new country. You know about this. I mean I’ve seen people leave toxic Relationships. There is something about the validation and confidence that comes in creating and executing such a big project that seeps into everything else that we do.
Stacy: Yes, yes. Also like you’re doing something that is really hard and you feel awesome about that at the end of the day. Right. You feel accomplished. This is one of the top things that people want to do in their whole entire lives. And you accomplish this thing and it’s amazing. So I love they made that point. Okay, my one thing. If somebody has been thinking about a book and they haven’t taken action yet, one. Okay, let’s set aside maybe having a conversation with somebody who can support you because hopefully that’s a given in this.

Richelle: That’s a given.

Stacy: What I find is that people set the bar for success way too high in their creative space. So they want to put an hour aside every day. This is really common. An hour seems to be the magic number that everybody picks. And they think that if I don’t show up for an hour, it’s not even worth it. Like there’s no point in sitting down. So if you have been putting zero minutes in, five minutes is a great starting place. So setting a bar of creative space at five minutes and all you have to do in those five minutes. I actually don’t really care if you stare at a page, just creating that space for yourself. Maybe you write a journal entry, maybe you create a little outline for an article that you’re going to write. Maybe you free write.

Stacy: Maybe, you know, I don’t know, you just use that space to write something. And then as you consistently show up, five minutes a day, three to four days a week, maybe five. I like to pick weekdays. Cause I feel that’s easier for people in some ways than they get to rest on the weekend. Then maybe you edge that up a little and you edge it up until you feel like you’re at a good space. You would be amazed with this consistency at a 20 minute writing session when you are consistently showing up because you are creating new neural pathways that allow you to get into the flow very quickly because you have this consistent habit what you can create.

Stacy: And then if that gets amplified out and eventually you’re like loving life and you do hit that hour or the two hours or whatever it is, you will be just blown away by what you can create. But let’s set our bar for success us low enough, like not that we’re not expecting high things from ourselves, but just to get started that we can achieve it and then begin to build that out. How about you?

Richelle: Because we’re building a muscle, we’re training a muscle. Like everything that I’m hearing you say, which I completely co sign is because we are training ourselves to operate in this new creative flow. I’m a big fan of the 20 minute writing time. That’s what I do for myself. I use a little program called 750words.com. It’s like five bucks a month. It’s like an archaic visual experience. But that’s not what it’s about. I was a chore chart kid. So like I want like the sticker when I do something. I’m really outing myself on this call. So 750words.com. It tracks your writing. And when you hit center 50 words, you get confetti on the screen.

Stacy: And I love that.

Richelle: And it gives you like little word clouds where it tells you, like, here are like themes that you’ve been discussing today. Here’s the mood of the writing. So you go, oh, if I’ve been in sort of like a somber writing place, like, let’s now move into sort of joy and ease. It takes the tone of the writing anyway. I find it very handy and I love the confetti. So for me it’s like I did a thing. But I also. We’re all learning ourselves as writers, right? So in some seasons, 20 minutes a day is totally doable. In some seasons, 20 minutes or 45 minutes or however many minutes every other day is what feels doable. It’s just a matter of showing up. And I agree with you. Like, sometimes it’s just opening the Google Doc and going, well, there she is.

Richelle: Okay, you know, like, that’s gonna be it some days. But this is also where a great outline holds you. It’s the safety net for when you don’t know what to write. My thing is go out in the world and teach. Go out and do it, show people, play with the idea publicly. You will get the best amount of feedback. And it’s like conducting a focus group for your book idea. And you don’t have to go out in the world and say, I’m writing a book. What you want to do is kind of take these micro conversations from what you think you want to write and go and teach them or do a live about them or write a blog or a substack or whatever it is and take a temperature check. Because sometimes what really resonates with people is not what you’re expecting.

Richelle: And so you get to bring more of that into the book. And so I just want people to stop, like, holding it and being like, I want to write a book. I want people to, like, practice it. I want people to, like, you don’t have to go on the Internet and exclaim it, but I want you to go and take the ideas you have and see what sticks. That’s my thing.

Stacy: I love that so much. That’s such a great way to think about it. And again, we’re talking about people that maybe have been in corporate environments or in these other spaces where they are working for a collective of some kind rather than exercising their own voice and teaching their own stuff. What a great way to begin testing out your idea and then be sure that you’re gathering your notes in some kind of cohesive format as you do, that you can use it later on in the process.

Richelle: An important part of that process.

Stacy: Yes. This was so fun, Rachelle. I know we should definitely do this more often, but I’m glad.

Richelle: I know.

Stacy: I love it today. Okay. Tell people where they can check you out and follow you.

Richelle: Yeah, I’m pretty much Rachelle Fredson everywhere. My podcast is bound and determined. And yeah, I hang out mostly on Instagram and the podcast though I love it here on LinkedIn. I’m getting better. But yeah, I’ve got the blueprint program if you’re looking to start playing with the idea and develop the. The book proposal. And I also coach privately. Tell us about you, Stacy.

Stacy: Well, I’m also Stacy Ennis in all the places I do, same as you. I spend a lot of time on Instagram and LinkedIn as well. I have a program called Idea to Draft. It’s a six month coaching program as well as a self study course called Nonfiction Book school. Yeah, I think that’s it. We’ll be sure to leave links in the show notes both on LinkedIn where we’re. Where we’re live. But I know we’re each going to be sharing this on our podcast too. Oh, and my podcast is beyond better. I did not mention that.

Richelle: I love your podcast.

Stacy: I love your podcast. Always treat guests and that’s a good listen. But we’ll be sure to include links to everything. And Richelle, thank you so much. I learned a lot from you on some little, some nuance to what you do that I hadn’t heard before. So I really enjoyed it.

Richelle: Likewise. Thank you.

Stacy: All right, we will, I guess go off live now and have a beautiful rest of your day.

Richelle: Bye, everyone.

Stacy: Bye.