What does it really mean to build community—and how can we create support systems that sustain, rather than drain, us?
In this powerful conversation, writer and literacy advocate Tamela Julia Gordon joins me to explore what she calls the “pour and be poured” model of community: an intentional approach to giving and receiving that replaces transactional relationships with mutual care and connection. Tamela shares her personal journey—from finding basic stability to building deep emotional bonds—and how proximity, place, and presence shape the communities we create.
We also dig into the publishing industry’s ongoing lack of diversity, what that means for whose stories get told, and how readers and writers alike can be part of lasting change. Tamela offers a candid look at the realities of life as an author—the emotional highs and lows of publishing—and why embracing the identity of “writer” requires commitment far beyond a single book.
This episode is an invitation to reflect on your own circles of support, the stories you uplift, and the ways you show up for others. Whether you’re seeking deeper connection, navigating your creative path, or simply trying to live more intentionally, Tamela’s insights offer both grounding and inspiration.
Learn more about Tamela:
- Instagram @shewritestolive
- Linktree
Book recommendation:
- Toni at Random: The Iconic Writer’s Legendary Editorship, by Dana A. Williams
- Avid Reader: A Life, by Robert Gottlieb
Follow me on:
- Instagram @stacyennis
- Facebook @stacyenniscreative
- YouTube @stacyennisauthor
To submit a question, email hello@stacyennis.com or visit stacyennis.com/contact and fill out the form on the page.
Claiming your author’s voice and building community | Episode 221 Transcript
These transcripts were generated by robots, not writers.
Tamela: This idea of community is of course it means that someone is there, but it also means who is participating with us in the poor and be poured model, which is what it’s all about. It’s not transactional because then that means that I owe you and you owe me and things can get rather muddy. But if I’ve got this resource and you’ve got that resource and we’re parallel and we make sure to look out for each other as needed, then that’s our poor and be poured into model. And so for a lot of us, when it comes to where am I fitting in, it really does look like what resource do I have and what resource do I need and what does that look like to congeal within this community and be a part of it rather than a giver and or a taker.
Stacy: Welcome. Welcome. We talk a lot on this podcast about wellness and we talk about writing and so this guest this week is perfect for us. I’m really excited to get to have a little bit of a different conversation about what self care means, to talk about some of the real talk about being a writer and an author and just to welcome this week’s guest. So let me introduce you to her. Tamela Julia Gordon is a Harlem based author, freelance editor and literary activist.
Stacy: Her critically acclaimed first book, Hood Wellness has been well received in both the literary world as well as inclusive wellness spaces. Tamla’s currently working on her second book, she writes to Live while touring the country in promotion of literacy. Tamela, welcome.
Tamela: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
Stacy: When I got to know you before having this conversation, I just got more and more excited as I learned more about what you do and in particular I loved learning about Your journey to understand what self care actually is and what it should look like in your own life. And I know earlier in your life you were living this kind of facade of self care and eventually that all fell apart and you had an experience that helped you face that get real about what self care means and then reignite your dreams to be able to have the life that you have today. So can you tell us about that?
Tamela: Yeah. So, you know, born and raised in New York, and I spent most of my adult life bartending and waiting tables in Manhattan. And so, you know, I had access to a lot of great self care resources, whether that was, you know, wellness, body movement, all the things I did yoga, I drank a lot of water and it just was not cutting it. And I had to really start from the beginning of my own personal needs, you know, and figuring out, like, what is missing, what is lacking. And the more that I was reflecting, the more I was realizing that it just did not have what I needed and that certain things that I needed, I was gonna have to try a little harder to get. And so that essentially is the start of hood wellness.
Tamela: And that is the start of not just for myself, but as well as other individuals in trying to figure out how our needs are a little different, how we can get it met, and what it looks like when we rely on community care to get those needs met and to help each other, opposed to just trying to rough it out individually.
Stacy: It’s interesting because it’s different the example that I’m gonna give you, but it does mirror a lot of what you’re saying. I live in a country that’s not my own country. Right. I live in a. In Portugal. And one of the things that I have learned, this is our fourth country outside of the US by the way. So we’ve. I’ve done this in a lot of different places. Is that, that community component, if you don’t have it, is really hard. And I’ve.
Stacy: Lately, I do have some people locally that I do consider good friends, but I have been really kind of looking around me at my community here and realizing that the type of bonds that I have with some of my long, like, lifelong friends or even friends that I’ve met later in life, but are really like, we really connected in a meaningful way. They are not here locally in this place. And again, while I do have people I love and care about deeply, it’s just not the same as having that whole community around you that you really feel like they’ve got you like if something happens, we’ve had, you know, situations where we’ve had medical emergencies, we’ve had different things happen. And I didn’t feel like I had anybody, which probably isn’t true, but it still matters that you feel that.
Tamela: Absolutely.
Stacy: So how did that show up for you? And how did you know, as you were kind of navigating this awareness around your own needs, how did you start to build that community in your own life? Maybe I can get some tips from you today.
Tamela: You know, I love that. And the thing about hood wellness is that because people ask often, you know, what makes it hood. There’s the kind of metaphorical aspect of it, which is hood as in community, hood as I understand it to be. As a lot of, you know, black and brown other marginalized communities identify hood as our haven, our inner community that we have, whether it is the projects or that neighborhood or just that one little nook in the town that is reserved for us. And so it’s also geographical. Right? And that’s shown very much in hood wellness, because where we live dictates our access, dictates our resources, and it also dictates how close or far we will be with other people.
Tamela: And so my own journey took me from New York to Miami and then to New Orleans and then back to New York. And then there are other people like Kit, who is a black trans woman, and her journey started in Boston, and as she was getting older, and she’s realizing that this community that was great for me at 18 is in tickling my pickle as much in my later 20s. And so I’ve got to go somewhere else. And that took them to Denver. And then there was Holly, who was dying of cancer. And rather than stay in a hospice, she wanted to visit her family and say goodbye. And that looked like traveling around the country. And so her community, you know, like that phrase, home is where the heart is, essentially, were all her community.
Tamela: And so for a lot of us, this idea of community is, of course, it means that someone is there, but it also means who is participating with us and the poor and be poured model, which is what it’s all about. It’s not transactional, right? Because then that means that I owe you and you owe me, and things can get rather muddy. But if I’ve got this resource and you’ve got that resource and we’re parallel and we make sure to look out for each other as needed, then that’s our poor and be poured into model. And so for a lot of us, when it comes to where am I fitting in? It really does look like, what resource do I have and what resource do I need?
Tamela: And what does that look like to congeal within this community and be a part of it rather than a giver and. Or a taker. And so for a lot of us, it’s always, for me at least, going to go back to your needs. Because for myself, you know, in the beginning of the book, my needs were very immediate and they were very basic. I needed dental care, I needed therapy, and I needed housing. But then once those needs were met, you know, needs are interchangeable. And so I kind of level up. And now I’m realizing I’ve got a great online community, but I need people that I can sit with and share coffee with. I need people that I can just kind of randomly call when I’m in this situation, and they can help me in ways that I can’t help myself.
Tamela: And that took me to New Orleans because I heard so much about how much fun they have and how nice everyone is. And it’s true. And I got what I needed there. And I also got an awesome writing community. But then I finished my book, and then I’m realizing, okay, well, now I need something a little bit more familiar. Now I need home. And so essentially, that’s what it often looks like. I think that a lot of times when it comes to community, we’re under this idea that it’s going to come to us or that we’ve got to go and we’ve got to hunt for it. But if you really start with your needs, if you really start with your resources, you can organically find a place.
Stacy: Yeah, it’s interesting because I like how you shared your story of you had to allow yourself to be poured into and then to a place where you can pour into others. I think that’s a really hopeful message for people who are in a moment that’s like you just really have needs of whether it’s financially or emotionally or whatever it is to be able to accept that into your life. The other thing I have thought about recently as well as I’ve been examining our community here, again, I have that community. They just happen to live in another country, which is not always the most convenient, is that I also had to start asking myself some.
Stacy: Some questions is like, okay, if I’m not getting invited to coffee with people or to their house or my kids aren’t getting invited to play dates or whatever it is, like, whatever the thing is that’s on my mind, have I invited them over have I asked them to come have coffee, Have I invited them to meet me for dinner? And I realized that actually the answer was no in a lot of cases. And then I would look at like, okay, well, what’s the why of that? Frankly, my reason right now is I’m so overloaded with parenting and work and all of the things that there isn’t a lot left. And the time that I have, I just want to like, exercise. Like, I wanna go on a run and just like get my stress out and just be peaceful.
Stacy: And so I, it’s like I look for people that align with that thing that I wanna do to spend my time. But then I’ve been going inward and going, okay, well if I want to build this community that Is going to. I love that. Pour and be poured. Where do I need to shift or change? I don’t think I’m alone in this. I think a lot of people feel this way. And what would you say to somebody who wants to build this, but they feel so time strapped or resources strapped or whatever it is, like, what could they do?
Tamela: So it really, like, my answer will always be the same. And the funny thing about community is I have the same attitude and structure strategy with writing. So we have this idea of like, where are people going to find my book? How do I get this book out there, right? How do I, how do I. And it’s always going to start with, well, where are you and who are you connected to? So if I’m you and I’m a jogger and I’ve got kids and I got a love life and I’ve got the house and I’ve got the things and I’ve got the new country, but I need a friend. Right? Well, what is the thing that I make time for to begin with? Running. Okay, great. Where are the other running hoes at?
Tamela: Where are the other people who only leave the house because they like to run? These are. Those are your people. When I, you know, I happened to go through the pandemic while I was living in Miami, in Little Havana, I’m not Spanish speaking, but I am Cuban. And so there was a major level of isolation. And it was in therapy that I realized I learned that I was going through social deprivation. And the idea of combating that was like, okay, great, I’ll just go out more. And what was happening was I was going out and I was coming back in immediately because unfortunately, social deprivation makes you crave home because it has become that Safe, soft space. And so there’s this idea that I’ve got to get back. I’ve got to get back home.
Tamela: And I thought to myself, well, how can I ever be friends and be in community? And I had to really work with my therapist and saying, well, what are you willing to leave the house for? I’m willing to leave the house to eat. I’m willing to leave the house to get some books. I’m willing to leave the house to go on a nice walk. I’m willing to leave the house to smoke a joint by the lake for about 45 minutes. That’s not a lot, right? I’m not mountain climbing. I’m not traveling throughout the country. But I was able to develop a community with other readers and writers by simply going to those events. What I loved about these events is writer meetups and reading meetups is there’s not a lot of talking.
Tamela: And so it was the offering exactly what I could handle, exactly where my bandwidth was, which was being in community, gathering with other individuals about something that we are all passionate about, Allowing me to share a sentence or two or maybe a little bit more. Going to the writing groups and maybe not sharing the first two times, and then that third time, sharing and having people be eager to listen to what I’m reading or writing, because I haven’t shared before. These were moments where opportunities were coming in. And what we find in hood wellness is that’s how it looks for everyone. It really does look like, what am I brave enough to do? What do I have the guts to walk into this week? And will I be okay if I just sat there and learned a little something or heard someone else talk?
Tamela: It really requires showing up. And the reason why I compare that to being an author and promoting a book is because there’s so many of us. Because this industry is so gatekept, because there’s such little information about how things go. We all have our own kind of idea all on how the book is gonna wind up on Oprah’s coffee table, right? It’s gonna go through here and there, and then they’ll see it. And then the closer you get to production, the closer you get to that launch, the more you start to realize they’re not gonna get this book. They’re not. It’s not gonna work that way. So how do I. And then that’s when you have to flip it, and you have to say, well, the readers are out there. They’ve been out there. There are a hundred books printed every single day.
Tamela: New books and so who am I connected to? Who is my reader base and opposed to actually waiting for people to find you? We go out there, we support other authors, you sit down, you go to these book events, these book signings, you show up to the virtual, you know, book launches, you ask the questions, you go to the webinars, you be engaging, you provide the support that you wish to receive when your book is coming out the same way with community, you provide the community that you wish to receive. And so what we find in hood wellness is a lot of us really are starting the community from scratch, wishing that it was there when we got there, but realizing that it’s not, but also knowing that we’re not alone.
Tamela: So maybe if we’re the first person to plant this flag in this little nook and say, this is where we’re stationed, to talk about navigating life with HIV or navigating life with major physical challenges or anything. And then slowly we gather. You know, it’s slowly, but it happens. And it’s the same thing with a book. It’s not overnight. The reader doesn’t just find you don’t just blow up. But if you do it right, you insert yourself in the community because you belong. Not because you fit in because you wrote a book, but because you belong, because you’re a reader and a writer and you engage and you are able to build as you gather. I hope that makes sense. I hope I wasn’t too woo.
Stacy: No, I love it. It’s so important. And as I shared with you before we started recording, I run a community called the Author Influence Circle. And we’ve been around for about a year and a half now, I think. Yeah, about a year and a half. And of course in the beginning I was like, oh, I really want to build this thing. I don’t know how this is going to go. I don’t know if people are going to want to join and how it will be. And it took us a little time to kind of get that community built. But we have been so intentional in that space, in creating a place where authors can come in and like ask questions of each other, share resources, shout each other out, celebrate. And that’s been so fun. You know, I wish I’d had that.
Stacy: I published my first book in 2013 alone. You know, I didn’t have anybody to. And I also was. Had a two month old baby at the time or three months old. So, you know, it was like double birth. Yeah, it was a lot. I didn’t even, I never Celebrated nothing. So I think that community, and to your point, that community only works. Our, our community, our author community, only works when people show up. Not just to get some support, they have to support each other and be part of that. One thing you mentioned is the very white gate kept publishing industry. And I double checked my stat here before we started talking because it always changes year by year. Most recent statistic I could find was from 2024, that 72% of the workforce is white, which of course then influences acquisitions.
Stacy: It influences who they’re even creating books for at all. It influences the content that comes out, even by black and brown authors. I mean there’s so much there that has changed a little, tiny little bit. It’s gone. I think the last stat I’d seen before that was, it was like 79%. I think in about six years it dropped to that 72. So tiny marginal adjustments. But I would love to hear from you on what you would like to like, what do we need to do in this industry? What do you see as the most needed change that can create more inclusive, diverse stories? And, and of course black and brown, the authors, but also disabled authors, queer authors. I mean, we have such a wide range of people that are not being heard from right now.
Stacy: And when they are writing books, they’re not getting purchased because they aren’t getting the deals, they’re not getting the marketing power behind them.
Tamela: I think that honestly, as a black reader and writer, the erasure of us in this industry for decades, I mean, probably since its inception, has so much to do with where we are now. So, you know, I look at 2024 and I think about that’s the year that Hood Wellness came out. That’s also the year that Ta Nehisi Coates, the Message came out, as well as Percival Everett James. And those two books, one fiction, one nonfiction, were essentially crowned the African American books of 2024. And therefore there was no room for anyone of any other talent. Right. It didn’t matter what genre you were writing. Those were the ones that were elected. And there’s the obvious aspect of the fact that because there’s not even room for all of us to be here is within itself.
Tamela: And to be honest, I don’t know where that starts or ends. I know that the publishing industry has a lot to do with it, but so does the reader. Because it is not uncommon to hear a non black reader, you know, boast about how they don’t care about the race of the author and they don’t check for that, because literature doesn’t require them to do so. It’s one of those things where you almost don’t care unless it affects you directly. But then I actually see someone’s musty bookshelf that’s all white classics. And I just don’t understand how they don’t realize how impacted they are by that.
Tamela: I think, though, that the best thing that we can do as readers is to be a lot more discerning about not just what we’re reading, but where we are purchasing it from, who we are supporting with the way that we read. My work with literacy activism is rooted in empowering readers and making sure that it is understood that as it stands right now, 54% of Americans are reading at or below a sixth grade reading level. So for that alone, reading is absolutely a form of resistance. Right? I don’t care. The Cat in the Hat, whatever the hell it is that you’re reading Colleen Hoover, whatever, you know, whatever tickles your pickle as long as you were reading.
Tamela: But then what happens is, as we get to that next step, we have to talk about what it looks like to be an unaccountable reader, what it looks like to be a reader who is really invested in furthering this industry. And the same thing goes as writers. So more often than not as writers, you know, we are not there, fortunately, there are so many black markets, there are so many black outlets for black authors to promote, but we wouldn’t have to have so many if this was not already such a diverse, divisive, and kind of racialized industry. And so I think that there’s obviously a lot of work that needs to be done up top in regard of editors, in regard of publishing houses and the books that we’re picking and the books that we’re promoting and who’s getting paid.
Tamela: But there is something to be said about the writer and the reader and the role that we are playing in. Because when I’m looking at these New York Times best selling lists or I’m looking at, you know, what Goodreads is recommending, or even book ride and ship, it’s mostly white. And it’s mostly white because it’s chosen, but it’s also mostly white because as far as many of these readers are concerned, those are the best books. And the black books are different and the indigenous books are different. And I don’t read like that. Whereas literature is literature. You know what I mean? And so I think that at least with my work right now, I’m so Much focused with working on where we are as a collective, as readers and writers, because we can actually move that needle in the industry.
Tamela: More so than if were to try to strong arm Simon and schuster into hiring 50% more women authors, black and brown authors, as well as all of us who are marginalized.
Stacy: Yeah, all of what you said is I deeply believe in the power of literacy and reading. I know for me, growing up in what a lot of people call whiteaho because it was like 89% white and very affluent area, my world only existed in one kind of homogenous version, and books were my only access to other ways of thinking. And that’s how I was. I got to learn about different places around the world, different cultures, even imaginary places, you know, just to put myself in these other spaces.
Stacy: To your point, also on, you know, the onus, being on the writer, I was a ghostwriter for a long portion of my career, and I, I, I did a lot of, like, subtle activism in my writing where, you know, a lot of times I would be working with white male clients who are always very great people. My clients are all have very good souls and good people. And of course, they tended to read, watch, listen to a lot of other white men. And so a lot of times as a ghostwriter, I would be scouring and pulling in quotes referencing books of people of color, of women, of, you know, all kinds of different authors and thinkers.
Stacy: And I think, again, one of the things that you like and that’s kind of in any space that you’re in, if you can bring in more like different voices in to highlight and to consume even. Another challenge I’ve really had with just even the posture of publishing is that like, white male authors can write to every single person. White women can write to every woman, and black brown women can write, you know, to the subsect. So it’s like that kind of gets narrower and narrower, and we don’t talk.
Tamela: About what that does to a person’s art.
Stacy: Yes.
Tamela: And that is ironically, one of the biggest. As an author as well as an editor, my biggest challenge with other writers is interrogating who you were writing to and who you were writing for. Because as an artist, you know, I write something, it’s a book, it’s on a table, I’m not there. It’s not meant for just one kind of person to pick up. It’s a book. Right. It’s like a snack. It’s for anyone who walks in the room who wants to enjoy a good book. But to be told, no, you can’t write that kind of book. It’s gotta. You go on the black snack table. It takes a lot of effort to push back from that narrative. And it takes a lot of integrity to, as an artist, to say, I’m writing for the whole, not the few.
Tamela: I’m writing for black women, but I write for everyone. Joan Didion wasn’t writing for me. Candace Bushnell was not writing for me. But it was readable for me, and that’s how I’ve always lived. And as a young black girl, when my sister would take me to the library, 7, 8, 9, 10 years old, I had three choices. There was the black Young literature of if you want to learn about the Harlem Renaissance, and. And Harriet Tubman. Heavy, right? I’m a kid and I need to know this stuff, of course. But I also want to learn about flying and magic and all the other fun things. But that’s my shelf over there. Now there’s another shelf where all the other white kids are flying and cracking cases and babysitting and identical twins and all that is fun.
Tamela: But I don’t exist over that shelf over there. And then there’s a third shelf, almost like the secret shelf. And it’s the shelf of black literature where the Terry McMillans and the Toni Morrisons and all the other great writers of the 80s and 90s were. And that was the shelf that I chose because that was the one that looked the most like me. But of course, that content wasn’t for me either. These were grown women, honey. They were going through divorces. They were taking careers again of 8, 9, 10, 11 years old. And I am consuming it, I’m devouring it, because it was enjoyable and I loved it. And it wasn’t until I was probably in my mid-20s that I realized I missed out on a whole genre of reading because it wasn’t there for me.
Tamela: And this isn’t to say that young, you know, YA did not exist. Black YA did not exist. Because it did. However, it was not as accessible and it was not as. There was nowhere near the variety that was had for mainstream ya. And so when you look now at all these books, and it was Tracy Dion who just released a YA book last year that did a phenomenal. And we see, like, okay, this is what happens when we edge our way in there.
Tamela: But there’s something to be said about when you don’t have it, because now I’m of the belief that black woman readers are just naturally intellectually superior because we have been Reading, Yeah, were reading Joan Didion and were also reading Jerome Hickey and were also reading Candace Bushnell and were also reading Queer lit and all these other things that were on that black shelf. And so now that we are adults, we know exactly who a reader is, who a writer is writing for. We can hear the tone. And it’s also something that Toni Morrison talked about in her book Playing in the Dark. And it is about the reduction of art when it is in the primary lane of the white gaze and all that is left out.
Tamela: And you know, I can even look back to 2016-2022 when there was the influx of anti racism books, right? And these were all like how to deracify you 30 days, racism, cleanse and all of these things that were coming out and we look at them now, I don’t want to say that they’re useless, but I would absolutely challenge readers who value these quick snippets of anti racism to what critical race theory actually looks like, right? And the tenements of that and what we’re actually learning and who it’s being applicable for. Because ultimately racism is not just a white woman’s problem. Right? We should all be having this conversation. But how did it happen where we zeroed in on white women, fixing white women, deracifying white women?
Tamela: How is it possible that white women are the target when there is someone way bigger over all of our heads? Right? Why do we stop short? We stop short because the publishing industry says that’s our consumer, that’s who’s going to buy. So write to them. So if you wanted to make some money, if you wanted to be a part of that wave, it was possible. But now fast forward a couple of years and none of those books are applicable. Much of it has been disproven because it’s not under the umbrella of true critical race theory. And we’ve surpassed this idea that if we can reach white people with anti racism, we can fix the world. We’ve now learned that you can be anti racist and still be misogynist, you can be anti racist and still be ableist.
Tamela: And so it is very important to learn the tenements of being anti racism. But also if the text that was written is exclusively for white women, then there’s a really good chance that it’s not effective. So there’s a lot that goes on with race in the industry as well as with being writers. And it’s not just reserved for black writers. It’s also to be said for Women, just like you said, you know, as women, we write to women. It’s a wild thing. But then you read something like I read Miranda July’s All Folks and I fell in love. And it’s essentially just about like a white 40 something year old mom who just has a come to Jesus moment where she wants a whole other life. Right. And I’m reading it and I’m thinking, oh my God, this is so smart, it’s so funny.
Tamela: And then every review I’m seeing, they’re like, what a great perimenopausal book.
Stacy: Producing. It’s a reduction of the art. Yes.
Tamela: You know what I mean? And I’m like so blown away that this body of work that this, I mean it is such a fascinating book on what it looks like to be stuck, what it looks like to have to latch yourself and what it looks like to start over. And that is beautiful, universal, unisexual for everyone. But you know, let their viewers tell it and it’s just a really good lesson about menopause and starting over. Wow.
Stacy: Oh, there’s so much. I feel like we could talk for four hours about all of this. Thank you for all that you shared. You’ve definitely given me a lot to think about and our listeners as well. I don’t want to miss the opportunity to talk about your book that you’re working on right now. She writes to Live because it is really, as I understand it from you, since obviously I haven’t read it yet, since it’s not out yet a lot.
Tamela: Would you like to be a beta reader?
Stacy: I would love to be a beta reader. I would love to. I think that would be wonderful. So my understanding of the book, and you can absolutely correct me or add more insights, is that it is really about the author, the writer’s journey. And a lot of it is that after part two and all of the things that are involved in maintaining the life of a writer. So can you tell us a little bit about that book? What inspired it and what are you hoping that this book will do for, you know, people that are already writing or want to become writers?
Tamela: So what inspired the book was the fact that I have been. She writes to live on social media since 2008 and it was just always such a cool handle. I started out as one of those writers that’s like, I’m not like a writer, but I kind of like write, you know, and which I’ve grown to just loathe at this point. I tell everyone if you wrote it down. You’re a writer. Like, just cut it out.
Stacy: I know, but you also have to, like, wrap people in a hug because you. You can understand that, like, the. The timidness of really owning that title, right?
Tamela: Yes, yes. But you know what? You gotta claim it. And if there’s one lesson that I learned, it’s that your writing career doesn’t get serious until you get serious about your writing career. And so a lot of that is that big step into saying, I’m a writer, I write. And so, you know, essentially, she writes. To live is, like you said, the writer’s journey on what it looks like to have a published book. And what inspired this was the day that my book was released. It was the hottest day of the year. Everyone was wildly disgruntled. My book signing was in Brooklyn. I had friends who didn’t want to go on Amazon. There was something happened, and you couldn’t order it on Amazon. I thought that I was going to be on the new release table of Barnes and Noble.
Tamela: And I went down there and upper west side, and it was like one copy in the back on the second floor. And I was just devastated. And I remember thinking, I’m devastated because of what I thought would happen. And none of it was a feeling that I was expecting rather than an action. It was a feeling of that release, of like, I’ve done it. I’ve arrived. I am here. I compare it to a girl’s first period, a person’s first period. In your mind, everything is going to change. There’s me before and there’s me after. And then once the after comes, oh, the boobs are going to be right behind me. And then that’s it. The quarterback is going to fall in love with me. And none of that happens.
Tamela: Girl, you just get your period and you tie your little sweater around your waist, and that is the end of your first day of your period. A lot of that is like a book where there’s a thing like, oh, my gosh, all this is going to happen to me. This is going to be so great. Everything will change. And then the book comes, and then you realize, like, oh, my God, I think I still have to work. I don’t think that this is. Oh, my gosh, I don’t think Oprah is going to call me about this book. I think I was going to be a regular writer. And it is in the awakening of that, and it is in the decision making of that on who am I going to be as a writer? What kind of Writer do I want to be?
Tamela: What kind of experiences do I want to have that really informed my process? So everything as simple as a tour, right? And realizing, like, I don’t have money for rent, more or less money to travel across country to promote this book, and having to fundraise to do just that, and having to use discretion on where to go and where not to go, what it feels like to not get a good review, what it feels like to think that you’ll be considered for something and you’re not. This is all a part of the process. And I think that this is what separates the writer from the person who just wants to say, I wrote a book. Because for the person who wants to say, I wrote a book, the book is so secondary to the experience.
Tamela: You know, the book is just the tool that gets you to the experience of the thing. The book is what gets them on the TED Talk, whereas the writer. The book is the work and so is the next book, and the book after that. And so we take notes on what happened and what worked and what different, and then we go into the next one. But what I realized was that I had adopted some of the ideologies of a person who says they want to write a book. And so I’m expecting these experiences that aren’t happening. I’m expecting these big breaks, and it’s not breaking. And I’m realizing, because that’s not practical for a writer, that’s not how this usually works.
Tamela: And I knew that I had a lot of friends who were authors and, you know, all those things, but I had to really learn that. And so it’s been a lot of fun kind of collecting some of these experiences over the years of thinking like, oh, my gosh, this was my big break note wasn’t. I’ve had about 11 near big breaks, and I still fall for it every time. Every time I’m like, oh, my gosh, I just heard I’m up for this award. You know, I just. I run. I run with it, and then I come back down to the earth and I remember that’s not how it works, and let me work on this draft and, you know, let me submit this pitch. But essentially, there’s just so many experiences in this industry that I wish I would have known.
Tamela: And I’m trying to cram it all in the book for other writers.
Stacy: Oh, I cannot wait to read it. It sounds so good. And I’m. I’m already nodding along because, yeah, I’ve been there. Tamela. I feel like, again, we could just keep talking and talking. But I’d love to ask you the last question that I ask all of our guests, and you’ve already given us so many book recommendations, so I don’t know if this will be hard or easy for you, but if you could recommend one book to our listeners, one book that has really profoundly impacted your life in a positive way, what would that be?
Tamela: Every week there’s a new book. But what I would say for writers on a book that has impacted my life as an editor, I would say currently, Tony At Random, written by Dana A. Williams, has served such a deep purpose in reminding me of the process of working with other people in this industry. Because Toni Morrison, of course, was this amazing writer from the 20th century. She’s also an editor. And so much of her work is a reflection on what it looks like to be a writer in this industry. And that book was very fulfilling. There are so many good books that came out this year that I’m thinking about, but for writers, I would absolutely say that. And I would also say Avid Reader by Robert Gottlieb, who was also Toni Morrison’s primary editor.
Tamela: He edited some of the biggest books in the 20th century and has outstanding insight on what makes a good book, what makes a good writer, and what makes good marketing.
Stacy: Oh, I love that. I’m adding both of those to my two wait list, so thank you for that. Thank you so much for being with me today. I really. I got so much out of our conversation. I know our listeners did, too. Where can people find you and follow along on social? Where’s the best place for them to follow your work?
Tamela: I love my hourly clock. Can you hear it?
Stacy: I can. I have an hourly church bell, but I’m not hearing it. We must be off time.
Tamela: Well, you can find me. I’m currently hiding from my editor and publisher, but you can still find me on threads and Instagram as @shewritestolive.
Stacy: Tamela, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today.
Tamela: This was fine.
Stacy: Pinkia and thank you to you, our listener, our viewer, for being with us. I really hope that this was impactful for you and has inspired you to broaden your reading horizons, think about your writing differently. Thank you as always to Rita Domingues for her production of this podcast. She is the reason that you are watching or listening to this right now. Otherwise it would just be in a file on my computer and I am so grateful. And since you’re still listening or watching this, do be sure to subscribe. Subscribe, rate and review the podcast. It makes a huge difference in helping me reach more listeners with the message of living a life that’s not just better, but beyond better. And I will be back with you before you know it.
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