What does it take to challenge bias, transform toxic cultures, and lead systemic change—especially in industries where women are still underrepresented?
I loved this conversation with Kae Kronthaler-Williams, a global software marketing executive and passionate advocate for women’s advancement in the workplace. Kae’s mission is bold and inspiring: to ensure every woman is seen, supported, and empowered to lead—because when barriers are removed for women, everyone benefits.
In this episode, we talk about what it really means to confront bias and challenge toxic workplace cultures while staying rooted in professionalism and purpose. She shares practical tools for responding to bias calmly and effectively, building support networks, and turning anger or frustration into meaningful action.
Kae’s new book, Not Made For You: How Women in Tech Can Challenge Bias, Claim Their Space, and Thrive in a System Built for Men encourages women to move from surviving to thriving—and calls on men to step up as allies in creating more inclusive workplaces. Kae’s vision for the next decade is one of systemic change, where women’s experiences are normalized and their leadership celebrated.
If you’ve ever struggled to speak up, make a hard decision, or find the courage to lead authentically—this episode will encourage and equip you to keep going. Kae reminds us that true change starts with courage, integrity, and a commitment to leave a legacy for the women who follow.
Learn more about Kae:
- Website
- Instagram @kaekwilliams
Book recommendation:
- Long Walk to Freedom, by Nelson Mandela
Follow me on:
- Instagram @stacyennis
- Facebook @stacyenniscreative
- YouTube @stacyennisauthor
To submit a question, email hello@stacyennis.com or visit stacyennis.com/contact and fill out the form on the page.
How to thrive in a system built for men | Episode 225 Transcript
These transcripts were generated by robots, not writers.
Kae: I was trying to fit into a system that wasn’t built for me. So I no longer looked at it as that person is a racist or a sexist or whatever. I looked at it as a system, as a whole, and it allowed me to lift myself above that situation and read it more calmly. And that’s the part you have to get rid of the emotion because then you will be able to handle these situations in a always a professional and calm manner. Because otherwise you’re feeding into some of the stereotypes that they have on us already. Right? So awareness is key. And then having community, you really need to build a strong community externally, internally, women allies, they can be men as well so that you can discuss these situations and figure out how to address them.
Stacy: Welcome. Welcome. We talk on this podcast a lot about bias that women face in the workplace, although we haven’t had a guest on yet that really talks to this directly. So I’m so excited to get to have a conversation around women in the workplace, how they can thrive in a system that’s not built for them, and also get to look in a little bit behind the scenes of an author’s journey. So let me tell you about this week’s guest, Kae Kronthaler-Williams. Kae is a global software marketing executive and a passionate advocate for women’s advancement in the workplace. She uses her platform to confront bias, challenge toxic work cultures, and spark change through writing, public speaking, coaching and nonprofit work. Her mission is to ensure every woman is seen, supported and empowered to lead because when barriers are removed for women, everyone benefits.
Stacy: She is the author of Not Made for How Women in Tech Can Challenge Bias, Claim Their space, and Thrive in a system built for Men. K. Welcome.
Kae: Thank you. Hi Stacy, thanks for having me.
Stacy: I am so happy to have you on this podcast. And from the moment we met, I’ve been so inspired by your mission and your heart to really encourage women to be successful in their careers. I would love for you to tell us a little bit about your book that is coming out on the publication date of our conversation. It’s also your book birthday. Tell us a little bit about the book and what inspired you to write it.
Kae: Sure. Thank you. So the book is about the bias and discrimination that women face in a, in the. Mostly in the tech industry. So it’s a male dominated industry and it’s a system that is built by men for men and we face a lot of barriers as a result. Women, we’re not as supported or we don’t have the same amount of support and guidance throughout our career. So the book talks about those dynamics that women will and hurdles that women will be up against and it provides the language and strategies for them to maneuver around sometimes through so that they can have not only a successful career, but a joyful one as well.
Stacy: What was the impetus to do this now? Like to get this book out in the world now and you know, arguably we’re in a time where there isn’t as much support and attention for women, for people of color, for people with disabilities, all kinds of different, you know, minorities or needs. I mean, there’s so much in our world that isn’t necessarily giving good, strong attention toward this topic. And you are, you know, in the midst of that bringing forth this book and really saying, pay attention. This is really important. Tell me a little bit about the, you know, I guess driving force behind it and how you’re thinking about this book in the climate that we’re in right now.
Kae: Sure. I think, you know, this is a long time coming. I’ve been wanting to talk about this for many years, never figuring out the right way or the right platform and not having the courage to do it because I still am a woman in the tech industry. I’m a CMO in a tech company right now. And that was a fear for a long time. Like, would this affect my career? And so, you know, I am towards the end of my career and I didn’t want to leave my profession and industry that I actually love without providing the guidance to women. And through my own experiences, you know, over the years, what I recognized in the most recent years is that I have figured out a way to maneuver through these discrimination and bias, that we see these dynamics very successfully.
Kae: And come out and still have this amazing career. You know, I am valued in businesses. I do address these issues, but always in a professional way. And so I felt it was important to provide that to other women. And, you know, I also. I have been mentoring women and men for many years. I. That’s something I do for my own joy. And I recognize that when somebody comes to me with an issue and they’re able to discuss it with me, and I can offer strategies, mostly women, I can offer them strategies on how I think they could approach it.
Kae: The relief that I see on their faces that they feel like they can go forth and tackle this in a professional manner and they don’t feel that they have to leave their profession as a result, made me realize that I wanted to find a broader platform to have these conversations. And then lastly, I’ll say I was in a very frustrating board meeting and. And I talk about this in my book where a colleague of mine was being spoken over significantly, like, just continuously throughout her presentation. And then I was. They were trying to speak over me as well. And I left the meeting and I was so frustrated. And we started talking about it because she was asking me what she was doing wrong. And I said. And I started to answer her in the way that we’re told to answer.
Kae: Well, you know, you need to be more definitive in your responses. And, you know, all of these things. And I realized, what am I doing? This is not her fault. Right. This is not her problem. And so that there, that day I decided, I am writing this book on this topic. So that was really the final straw for me was that Ford meeting.
Stacy: Sometimes it’s those moments, you know, it’s like it builds up and it’s like, I gotta do it. This is the. This is the thing. Yeah. It’s interesting because you got me thinking about a situation that happened recently. It’s seemingly disconnected, but I will. I will loop it back around. I had a situation where I took my child to have his haircut. And he was actually very polite and very good. He didn’t wiggle around. He was like, really Still, I think for, you know, for a kid. And he. But, you know, he kept kind of maybe turning his head a tiny bit, but it wasn’t anything egregious. And the hairstylist, I thought she was joking at first, but she. I thought she was being, like, jokey mad, but she was like, mad.
Stacy: And she said, like, she got down and she was like, hold still to him. And I, like, in those Moments when something happens and you have to go very quickly, how do I respond to this? In the past, when I was less anchored in trusting my own reaction, like to have a calm reaction, but a clear reaction. Because the reaction in that moment isn’t just about letting her know that wasn’t okay. It was also about showing my son that people don’t get to talk to him like that.
Kae: That’s right.
Stacy: So my. My response was to walk over to her and look her in the face and say, do not speak to him like that.
Kae: Right.
Stacy: And, you know, both of them heard that.
Kae: Yes.
Stacy: And. And it was one of those moments where I felt very appropriate to have that kind of a. I wasn’t mean, I wasn’t like, egregious. But I said the thing that probably I wouldn’t have said five or 10 years ago. And one of the things that you balance so well in your book is really helping women understand how to respond and how to balance the risk of their response in certain scenarios, how to make hard decisions on. Is this an environment where I’m ever going to thrive? And if so, how can I navigate that when things come up, or do I need to really reassess? You have such a nice balance in the way that you approach this. I’d love for you to speak to this a little bit.
Stacy: Maybe for a woman who’s listening to this and has had situations where she was talked over or witnessed somebody being talked over or something similar. What advice would you give this woman? How would you help her think about these scenarios when maybe something happens that isn’t okay and she has to figure out how to reply to it?
Kae: I think the. Yeah, I mean, it’s not always easy and we don’t always address it correctly the first time. I mean, there’s times where we’re. We’re shocked that it’s even happening and we’re in our head, we’re saying, wait a minute, did they just say that to me or did that just happen? And you. We tend to go towards doubting ourselves first, and then we walk away and we think, oh, I should have said this. Right, because now you’re calm and now you do have the answer and you can go back and then address it again. But I think the most important thing is the awareness of these situations. You have to be aware because sometimes they’re so subtle and we don’t recognize them. And that’s why I give examples and use stories of my own experience and other Women’ the book.
Kae: So it illuminates how they show up. How these situations show up at work because they can be really subtle. And what we fail to know is that these subtleties, if they’re not addressed, they are devaluing you. In a meeting, for example, if someone’s speaking over you all the time, or somebody stealing your idea, you think, oh, that’s not a big deal, I’ll let it go. But you’re devaluing yourself and they’re devaluing you in that meeting. And that affects your career and your promotion sometimes, Right? And so the first thing is awareness of what’s happening in these rooms. You have to be able to read the room. And in order to do that, you do have to take emotion out and be calm. And what helped me was when I recognized that I was trying to fit into a system that wasn’t built for me.
Kae: So I no longer looked at it as that person is a racist or a sexist or whatever. I looked at it as a system, as a whole, and it allowed me to lift myself above that situation and read it more calmly. And that’s the part you have to get rid of the emotion, because then you will be able to handle these situations in always a professional and calm manner. Because otherwise you’re feeding into some of the stereotypes that they have on us already. Right? So awareness is key. And then having community, you really need to build a strong community externally, internally, women, allies, they can be men as well, so that you can discuss these situations and figure out how to address them. The book gives you strategies on how to address them. And then I think lastly is getting comfortable with.
Kae: With awkward situations, getting comfortable with the uncomfortable. Because sometimes addressing these in a meeting can be uncomfortable. And you, in order to do it effectively, you can’t say something like, hey, you shouldn’t have spoken over me, and then go, well, you know, it’s okay this time. But not. No, it’s. Yeah, you. You keep speaking over me and I. And I have something I’m going to say, and then you just say it. Now, that’s going to make the room uncomfortable, but you have to be okay with that because then hopefully it won’t happen again. So those are the things that I think it’s awareness building, community, and then getting comfortable with being uncomfortable so that you’re addressing these as they come up.
Stacy: When somebody’s in that moment. And I’m just reflecting back to some experiences I’ve had. You know, it’s so
easy to actually, everything that you teach can be connected to life, too. I’m thinking about actually A doctor’s appointment that I had when I was like, a year ago, and I had shingles, and I was having some really, like, neurological, like, symptoms. So I was pretty scared. And it was a female doctor, and I just couldn’t get her to take me seriously. But I was escalating in my. My fear of these symptoms I was having was escalating my response and in the moment. Luckily, my. My friend’s a doctor, so she called this doctor, and I did get the. The. All the care that I needed.
Stacy: But had I not had that, I don’t think I would have gotten through because I was in a heightened state and I wasn’t able to bring myself down in that moment to be able to, like, logically communicate in this situation. So when these scenarios come up, whether it’s in a personal situation or a boardroom or a review meeting or, you know, with a team member that you’re leading, and you have a moment come up where it does raise, you know, raise your blood pressure, it is uncomfortable. You are kind of in your head. Maybe there is some emotion connected to it. What advice do you have for somebody in the moment to help them respond to this or not? You know, what do they do in that moment when they’re feeling that?
Kae: I think you. It’s practice. It does. It’s practice. It does take practice. Right. I didn’t always do this well, but I think if you’re angry, say the word. Don’t show the emotion. Or, you know. And one of the things I’ve said when I’ve been really irritated about something happening in a meeting, and I will say, I’m going to speak very passionately about this right now. They know that I’m not happy. Right? I love that they know I’m not happy. And then I say what I need to say. You can say, look, that makes me really angry. I don’t have to shout that I can just say it. But it’s okay. If you can’t handle it in that moment, just say, you know what, I’m going to get back to you on this, or let’s talk about this at some other point.
Kae: I’m not prepared to respond right now. That’s okay. Eventually you’ll feel more comfortable, but you’re not always going to be in the moment to respond. Not even me. And I’ve been doing this for a long time. Like, there’s times where I get caught and I know I shouldn’t say something because what I say is not going to be professional. So I just don’t right, but it’s, you know, the. All the things we learn. Breathe. Take some breaths. Pausing is fine. You don’t have to fill the space all the time. You don’t have to react right away. You can calm yourself down, not say anything. It may. Again, it may feel awkward because everybody’s waiting for you to respond. Let it feel awkward until you’re ready to respond. And if you’re not ready to do it in that moment, that’s okay, too.
Stacy: It’s such good advice. Also knowing. I read some data recently that it depends by culture, but I think the us, the cultural comfort zone of silence is three seconds. So if you pause for three seconds, probably somebody else is going to fill in that pause because it’s so uncomfortable. Yes. And it’s like our compulsion to fill the silence. I’ve also found when I’m in really important situations, whether it’s professionally, personally, if I just say something, stop and pause and wait, that is often, again, such an uncomfortable scenario for other people. And my intent is never to make people uncomfortable.
Stacy: But rather than do like you mentioned earlier, like, oh, but maybe, or I know, or, you know, those softening things that we tend to do that make it comfortable for the other person to come into the conversation or, you know, like, soften it, sometimes just stating and stopping, Just stopping can be incredibly powerful.
Kae: Right? Exactly. There’s a situation that I had in a meeting, and it was a CEO who we all knew had a big ego. And were going around the room and talking about our status update. So I was giving mine about this. We were moving a website or were redoing a website, and so he had to jump in and he knew this technical thing more than I did, and he was wrong. And I addressed it, and then he came back, and then I addressed it again. And then he came back and I thought, okay, this is. This isn’t gonna. Like, in my mind, I realized the loop I was getting in with him. So I didn’t handle it right the first time because I went back at him like, now we’re like, now he’s right, I’m right. And so finally I just said okay.
Kae: And then I went on to my next item. That was it. I just said, okay, and I moved on. That was uncomfortable, but I did it because I knew this wasn’t. I wasn’t going to engage. And sometimes you have to think about that. I’m. This person wants you to engage. Right. It’s a little drama that they like or it’s an ego, you know, Thing that’s making them feel. Getting a little high off of that or. And that’s why it’s reading the room. And I just said, okay, yeah, it’s not. You don’t need much more than that. He got the hint like, I’m not going to continue this. Right. And it’s feeling comfortable doing those things, like just saying what you need to say and dropping it. Even if they continue to engage, you don’t have to just say what you said. That’s it.
Kae: Don’t say anymore. But it’s being able to control your emotions and not taking it personally, recognizing it for what it is. It’s that person, that’s their ego. It’s their. They need to do something in that room. They feel important for them. Does. It’s not a reflection on you at all. Because sometimes we’re trying to defend ourselves because we think it’s reflecting on us, but it isn’t. And the other people in the room knew what was happening. Right. So just pause and if you don’t feel like you handled it well in the room, go around after and say, you know, I want to have a conversation about what transpired in the meeting. It. I didn’t, it made me uncomfortable or I didn’t appreciate how the situation unfolded. I’d like to discuss that with you when you’re calmer. Right. So it’s okay to go around after.
Stacy: And have that conversation that proactively answered my question, which was, you know, probably when some of. If you mishandle something or you don’t know if, for example, with the situation that you told probably the CEO is uncomfortable, you could potentially be penalized for that, you know, that interaction if you don’t handle it. I would think so. Probably. Knowing also how to navigate aftermath of those interactions is really important.
Kae: Yeah, but sometimes you can’t always be the one that fixes everything. Right. That was his issue, not mine. But actually in this situation, and I will give him credit where credit is due, two days later he came to me and got on a call and said, you know what? I apologize. I realize now what you were saying now. I don’t think he realized it. I think somebody else in the room, I know somebody else in the room talked to him and said, actually she was right and you were wrong, but it was a big person for him as a CEO to come and say, I made a mistake. Right.
Stacy: So, yeah, that ownership is rare too. So it’s nice to hear that that happened. I would love to shift a little. We’ve talked about some wonderful tips, and I love this because I’m already thinking of ways I can apply it. I know our listeners and viewers are as well. I’d love to shift a little bit more big picture because we talked about this goal of writing the book, the decision to write the book. I’d love for you to share about how this, how you see this book as part of your advocacy work and what you would like this book to accomplish in the world.
Kae: Yeah, the book is. The main purpose for the book is for me to have this conversation on a larger scale. Right. It’s. It’s going to hopefully allow me to do other speaking opportunities like this and others so that we start to open up this conversation. We start to name these bias and discrimination barriers that we’re seeing in the workplace. Right. We. We. You have to name them in order for people to recognize that this is happening. Because I’ve spoken to men and they. They have no idea that we’re feeling the way we’re feeling in these rooms. Right. And so, I mean, that’s the big piece of this, is that platform.
Kae: And what I hope to gain from this is that women are not just surviving in their jobs, that they’re thriving and they’re enjoying it and they’re building these wonderful, joyful lives like I have. That’s the most important thing for me is to see that happening. And then I would love to see men, and I am seeing it more than I have in the past, men supporting women in these rooms, even when the woman isn’t in the room. That’s what I’m hoping. And the way to do that is for them to recognize that women have a very different experience at work than they do. They’re not aware of it. They don’t think about it because they don’t have to. So I’m hoping this drives that behavior. And then ultimately, I hope this isn’t such a radical concept in three, five, ten years. Right.
Kae: I hope that we’re shifting the dynamics in these rooms, that there’s more women in the rooms and that we’re changing these barriers so that this isn’t radical.
Stacy: I love that vision. And I know that this book, I mean, you’ve already been doing all of this work your whole career. And in fact, even while writing the book, of course, you were continuing to mentor and support women and drive awareness for men that care to be strong advocates, care to no longer be ignorant about the way that things actually are. I see such an opportunity for a leader in an organization to buy a copy of your book for everybody in their company. And you’ve written it in such a way with such care on both sides. Like you’ve had some wonderful leaders in your career.
Kae: I have.
Stacy: You’re a leader. You’ve mentored so many people. And I know as you were writing the book you held, it wasn’t like, I’m just going to write a book that rips apart tech. That was never the message or that doesn’t come through in the book at all. It’s really, you genuinely want to create a space where everybody works together, is valued, is heard, is not talked over. And that ignorance of the system, which I say ignorance twice now because a lot of men in these spaces, they’re good people, they want this information.
Kae: I agree.
Stacy: Yeah, right, yeah, I agree.
Kae: There’s, there’s more good than bad, I think. Right. You know, you run up against a couple. But I’ve had amazing bosses, right. I’ve had amazing co workers and who become friends. And so yes, I think it’s awareness on both sides. It’s not just women on how to navigate this, it is men understanding what the system is doing. You know, I’ve had so many women say, I just want to show up, I just want to go to work and do my job. Like we don’t, that’s what we want to do. We just want to come in and do our jobs and be great at it. And it, and this isn’t about the tech, it is about the tech industry because that’s the industry I’m in and it is a male dominated industry. And so these are real situations. But for me, I love my industry.
Kae: I’m very passionate about tech and as a marketer and I want it to be more successful. And I, I truly believe by having diverse groups, work groups, we, the businesses are more successful, we make better decisions. It’s, you know, there’s studies that have been done. That’s my hope even for my industry. So I’m not here to say bad things about the industry because I would have just left it, I wouldn’t have stayed and I would tell women not to go into it, but I’m not because it is in a very fascinating industry. I’m super passionate about tech and so I want the industry to be successful and I want the women in it to be successful as well.
Stacy: It’s such a great posture to bring to the writing process because I think it creates a really open, it’s an invitation rather than condemnation. Yes. Can we talk about the writing process. Kay. Because I would be our poor listeners if we don’t get to talk about that. You poured so much energy and time not just into the book, which of course was a big process, but also in all of the effort that it takes to get that book into readers hands as well. I’d love to go back into the writing process and I’d love to hear a little bit about any challenges you faced, wins you had. Maybe you can give us a little insight into what it’s like to write a book.
Kae: Sure there were challenges, of course. I love to write. I’ve loved to write. Even when I was young. I’d write short stories and never show them to anybody. But I do like to write, but this was a different process for me. I think the challenge, the first challenge is self doubt, right? You think, am I the right person to tell this story? And it is very. The topics I discussed are very sensitive. So I, I did have to fight through that doubt. Am I the right person for this? And then I was and still am in a full time role as a CMO in a tech company. So that challenge of time, like how do I divide my day and I’m married, you know what I mean?
Kae: And I have family and so how do I divide my life so that I can write this book? That was challenging for sure. And I had to find ways to do that. And mostly it was weekends. I wrote on the weekends and early in the mornings. But the biggest challenge for me, honestly, Stacy, was I wanted real stories. So I had to document my own experiences. So reliving some of those was painful. But what was more difficult was I spoke with colleagues that I knew. I had heard some of their stories and I had to interview them so they could tell their story. So now they’re baring their soul for something as really difficult to relive. And I had to interview them and stop them to ask questions so I could write the story.
Kae: Now that was challenging because you want to honor what they’re feeling at the moment where they’re telling the story. You want to honor that experience. So that was a struggle for me. And then writing their stories, I just like I had to make sure it portrayed what they needed it to portray and do justice to the book and while maintaining their privacy. So that was probably the biggest challenge of this book was these wonderful women who. And men. There are men in there that have shared their stories that were willing to share their stories with me and hopefully I have done those stories justice in the book. I. I hope so. I really do. Because it was hard for them to tell their stories. I had one woman say, oh, my God, I need a drink. I need a glass of wine.
Kae: After this conversation, which showed. And you could see it in their faces. They were reliving these really difficult moments that they experienced in their. In their career.
Stacy: It’s such an honor to be trusted with those stories, isn’t it? You know, somebody.
Kae: It is.
Stacy: Gives you that, like, is vulnerable with you and knows you’re also using that in a writing capacity and trusts you to keep the private things private and get the details correct and respect them in the storytelling. But also knowing that, you know, I think about sometimes the women who come forward in sexual abuse charges, you know, how much strength it takes to share a story and to have to keep living through that as you stand up for what’s right. And it’s so much easier and understandable to not go through that.
Kae: That’s right.
Stacy: And so these people that gave their time and their trust to you, I’m sure that felt very. I don’t know, what is the word, Kay? What is. What was. What was the feeling that you had?
Kae: I felt privileged that they would let me tell their story, but I certainly felt a great sense of responsibility. To do it well, right? To do it well.
Stacy: Yes. That’s a great. The privilege and responsibility. So I know we have a lot of aspiring authors that listen to this podcast, watch YouTube. Our interview on YouTube. If somebody is thinking about writing a book and maybe a lot of what you’re saying really resonates with them, there’s the self doubt, there’s the, you know, how will this impact my career? How do I balance saying the thing with navigating what is still my world and my career? And this will be for the foreseeable future. What would you say to somebody who’s considering that journey?
Kae: Get help. That’s my first, I think for me, I don’t know. And I’m not just saying this because I’m on your podcast, I would say this, and I have said it many times. I don’t think I would have written this book if I wouldn’t have kind of stumbled upon you and asked you to be my coach and you gave. This is what I think is important, to have somebody, a coach or whoever it is, to give. Give you structure to your process, make you accountable. Right. Like, we had a rhythm, like every two weeks you’re writing a chapter. So. And I needed that because I was really busy. So I Think it’s important to get help for sure. And again, a coach is fantastic. I highly recommend Stacy.
Kae: And maybe it’s somebody that you know, maybe it’s a friend who keeps you accountable, but the accountability and the structure is critical. I think writing freely at first is. Which. Something that you taught me just to write, not edit in between. Just write. That was really important and figure out what that. How. How that works for you. Sometimes I could type on a computer. Other times I had to just take my notebook, go out on my deck and just write. So figuring out what worked for you, what time of day works for you, those things. So those are the. That’s the advice I would give. And I think we tend to not write books because we think our story is ordinary and it’s just personal about me. Nobody else will relate.
Kae: And what we have to remember is that we have more collective experiences than we realize. And imagine if one person hears your story and it changes their life or helps them overcome something. I mean, how. How amazing is that if you’re able to do that. So, so yes, write your book and hopefully you’ll get some help from a wonderful coach like I did along the way.
Stacy: That’s so important, such an important message for people, I think, just to know that their. Their story is worthy of being shared. And, you know, there is always that kind of spot of also making, if you have a big dream or goal attached to it, of impact, also making sure it’s marketable. But I like to. And you’re. I mean, you’re a marketing expert, so that was a really great bonus for you coming into this process. But the thing that I. I often will say to people is that you always should start from the inside first and then. And then validate externally. Because if you are looking outside and you get into that comparison of, you know, like you said, am I. Is this too ordinary or will anyone even care?
Stacy: You start to do all this comparison and you lose touch with actually the book. The book’s already here. It’s. It’s all, it’s all inside of you, actually, it’s here. And. And that excavation of it has to start with introspection and building that. How was that for you as you worked through? You know, you came in with an idea. But of course, then there’s these steps that you have to take to shape that into something that’s clear, that has clear audience, reader, that connects to that vision. What was that process like for you, going through and clarifying?
Kae: I think the writing helped and discussing it with You. I mean, we had a lot of discussions, right? Like, who is this audience? So you’re writing this book and you’re pouring your heart out every day, every week, but there’s times where you have to step back and say, who am I? Who is my reader? And I tried to look at it as one person when I was writing. It’s this woman. She’s probably in her 30s or 40s, and she’s in the building stages of her career. So I tried to put myself back into that mindset because I am fortunately or unfortunately, I’m no longer 30 or 40, but. And I’m not in the building stages of my career, but I had to put myself back into that mindset. So it’s, you know, really honing in on who do you’re.
Kae: Who your audience is, and then what do you want them to take from your story? What are you hoping they learn? Now, that might have been easier for me because I am a marketer, and we have to do this all the time, right? Like, we’re. We’re trying to drive messages to a particular audience. But that was. I had to keep reminding myself while I was writing to make sure that I was shaping the conversation so that it would relate to the audience I was trying to go after.
Stacy: That marketing mindset is really smart when you bring it in and have that one person, because it can be really overwhelming if you’re trying to write to multiple or like everyone or even a big, huge group. And having that one person that you’ve created, that’s the Persona, helps so much. Kay, I hope that everybody buys your book, especially tech leaders, that they gift it to their teams, that they bring you in to speak, because I think that this can make great change in the tech industry. Thank you so much for your time.
Kae: Thank you.
Stacy: I want to just ask you our question that we ask all guests, which is well suited because I’m a book nerd and you’re an author. If you could recommend one, just one book to listeners, this is outside of your own book, one that has really profoundly impacted your life, what would it be?
Kae: Yeah, that’s a tough one because I read a lot, as you know. I know I knew it would be, but I. The Long Walk to Freedom by Nelson Mandela had such an impact on me. And most people think it was because of his resilience, which is a part of it, but it was because of. He stayed true to his values, even while risking. Knowing he could risk everything. I mean, he went to prison, so that was really key for me. That he stayed true to who he was and what he believed in. And the other piece of that, what was impactful is he took a personal experience, what he was experiencing in his country and created a collective vision for the good of many people. And he did it not because, maybe somewhat because of power, of course, but because of service and courage.
Kae: And that stuck with me. I was probably in my early 30s when I read that book.
Stacy: Book.
Kae: And it really stuck with me and helped me shape how I handle challenges in my own life and in my own career. And always making sure there’s a component of service in that and certainly courage.
Stacy: That’s beautiful. I haven’t read that book, but I definitely need to add that to my list. I think that willingness to stay, stake everything on your values, that’s what I hope I would do. I’ve never been faced with that, but it’s amazing when you witness people that do that. Thank you for that recommendation. Okay, where can people buy your book, follow you? How can they get in touch if they want to bring you into their organization or to their conference or to anywhere that they want to bring your expertise and wisdom.
Kae: So they’ll. You’ll be able to find my books soon on Amazon as of today because we’re publishing this. That’s right. So today you can go to Amazon and you will find Not Made for you by Kron Charler Williams. And then you can go to my website, it’s kaewilliams.com and you’ll be able to buy the book there as well and learn all about me and some of the speaking that I do. And within that website, as you know, there’ll be links to the social media platforms that I’m on, such as substack, LinkedIn and Instagram. So there’ll be links on there as well.
Stacy: We will link to all of that in our show notes. So if you’re feeling inspired by this conversation and want more from Kay, you can just click the links in the description and get a copy of her book. Kay, thank you so much for joining me. It was a delightful conversation. I really appreciate your time and energy.
Kae: It was my pleasure, Stacy. And thank you for having me. Thank you on the show. I appreciate it.
Stacy: A pleasure on my side as well. Thank you to you, our listener, for joining us, to our viewers on YouTube for joining us. I’m so grateful to have you here and I hope this was hugely valuable for you. Thank you as always to Rita Domingues for her production of this podcast. She is the reason that you are watching or listening it today. Listening to it today. She edits the audio, she edits the video, she gets it up on all the places. She adds the show notes. She does everything. So really so grateful. And if you’re still watching or listening, you must have really liked this episode. Be sure that you’re subscribed and if you have a moment to rate or review the podcast, I would be so grateful.
Stacy: It helps me reach more listeners with the message of living a life that’s not just better but beyond better. And I will be back with you before you do know it.
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