Nikki: Sales isn’t about you and it’s not something you’re doing for yourself. It’s your way to be of service to somebody who has expressed some type of a need or a struggle or a want and you have figured out that you have something that would help solve that problem, that need, that want that they have. And I would say there have to be three things in the present in order for you to really have permission to sell to somebody. So they need to have a need, you need to have a solution, and you need to ask for permission.

Stacy: Welcome. Welcome. I’m really excited today to get to talk about a topic that some people think is maybe not always the most fun thing, which is sales. I have gone through my own journey with how I think about sales in my business. For a long time, I didn’t even like to use the word. I just didn’t like to think about that as part of my process for serving people.

Stacy: But over time I started shifting my perspective to really see that sales process as a service process and really making sure to keep the person that I am hoping to support in view and really serve them through that whole process. And I think that perspective is a really important one to have as business owners. I’ve never really articulated my own process and I don’t really have a way to like package and explain that to people. So I’m really excited that today’s guest will be able to do that for you. So let me introduce you to Nikki Rauch. Nikki brings over 25 years of sales experience with organizations like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Hewlett Packard and NASA. She holds a business degree from the University of Washington and a master’s certification in NEURO linguistic programming, blending strategy and communication to support client success.

Stacy: Nikki has a track record of breaking sales records and has earned multiple sales awards. She has been featured in Female Entrepreneur magazine, is a sought after speaker, and leads the Sales Maven Society where she helps clients achieve meaningful results through workshops, keynotes and VIP consultations. Nikki, welcome.

Nikki: Thank you so much, Stacy. I’m excited to be here and have that con or have this conversation with you.

Stacy: Yes, I am so excited to get to dig into this because I know that this is a pain point for a lot of people. I hope that at the end of this episode that we can reframe that for people. I would love to start with your background. Now we discovered in our like pre chat before we hit record that we are both Idaho girls. So that’s very exciting. I know that’s where the magic all began, but I’d love to hear more about your background and what led you into sales. How did you get into this field? And then what was it that encouraged you to do the work that you do today, sharing your knowledge and especially supporting women?

Nikki: Well, thank you for asking that. I love the way you framed that question. So I actually got my first professional sales job through a college project. So at the time I was a part of the University of Washington. That was where I graduated from. And we had this college project that we got assigned for one of our classes that led me to the first company that ended up hiring me. And as a matter of fact, they hired two guys from my class and I thought if they’ll hire those two knuckleheads, they’ll probably hire me. So that’s how I got my first professional sales job. And I was selling technology and it was pretty early in for the type of technology that I was selling. So it was a pretty exciting time.

Nikki: This was back before the like.com boom and all of that, but it was just really exciting to be a part of that. And I worked my way up in the first company to become their national sales manager. I was managing a large sales team and then I moved to the manufacturer side and that’s when I started selling to some of the larger organizations that you mentioned in my bio. And when I did that, I found that it was a, you know, it was a much bigger, like opportunity, a lot more high pressure. And I was selling in a market that was very male dominated and I really wanted to up my game. But I don’t have that personality of like, go out and hunt the big game and like knock them down, you know, like that’s just not me at all.

Stacy: Masculine energy, yes.

Nikki: I do not have a lot of that masculine energy. And so I start I found my way to neuro linguistic programming. I know you mentioned this in my bio, if that’s a new term for anybody, it’s really the study of communication. And I went to study NLP because I thought, oh, it’s going to make me more like competitive in the sales environment. And it definitely upped my sales game. But what it really did is it made me a much better communicator which resulted increased relation. Like my relationships got better as a result of it. So I got really engaged in it. And you know, when I wasn’t traveling for work all the time, I was, you know, assisting in NLP classes and just really deepening my learning there. So had a lot of success in the technology space.

Nikki: Space and got to a place where I started looking around going like, is this it? I’d been at that point, I’d been in the field that I was in for 17 years and I just thought it just seems like there should be something more fulfilling. So I left my corporate job that I was having making really good money and people thought I had lost my mind. As a matter of fact, there was a rumor that got started that I must have joined a cult. People were so shocked that I left the industry that I’d been in for so long and I didn’t really know what I was going to do. So I was helping my NLP teacher grow her business. And that was when I first started networking with women because again, I came from this very male dominated industry.

Nikki: And as I got to know these women, I was so inspired by them and the passion that they have for whatever their topic is of interest. And I just wanted to be around them as much as possible. So my way to be around them was to try to be of service. And I found that a lot of them really struggled with the sales conversation. And you know, if you don’t know how to sell, you struggle to make money in your business. And when you struggle to make money in your business, you have a hobby, you don’t have a business. So I started kind of just helping some of them on the side, not thinking I was ever going to start my own business. But turned out that they were getting a lot of success with the things that I was teaching.

Nikki: And they were like, why? One person in particular was like, Nikki, you need to start teaching these skills. And I was like, I think it’s kind of easy and I don’t think people would pay me for it. She’s like, no, I think people will pay you for it. So I started my business back in 2013, and it has been the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done in my career of now teaching people that don’t consider themselves like a traditional sales position or like, even like most of my clients start out by saying, nikki, I hate sales, or I suck at sales, or sales is the thing I like least doing in my business.

Nikki: Those are my perfect ideal clients because I can show them how they can show up and be their authentic self and have really strategic conversations that don’t feel pushy and icky and gross. They actually. I always say, sales isn’t something you do to somebody. It’s something you do with somebody. And when you start framing the way you have conversations like that, sales gets easier for you, and it gets so much easier for your prospective buyer. So that’s what I do now, and that’s my background.

Stacy: I love that framing. I think there’s also that mindset that you come into it if you have an abundance mindset or you have a scarcity mindset, like, oh, my God, I have to close this one. Or, you know, or you come into it, and you’re really also in an exploratory process to make sure that this is also the right fit for you, for the work that you want to do in the world. What I would love, you know, to hear from you is you mentioned that people will say, oh, I hate sales, or sell, sales sucks. I hate that. Surely many listeners completely resonate with that. They’re like, yes, I just. I have to do it. But it’s, you know, it’s just so. It’s so uncomfortable. I would love for you to maybe offer them some initial.

Stacy: I don’t know if it’s, like, strategies, if it’s a mindset shift. What would be that first step for them to start to reframe how they think about this and so that they can be successful in sales?

Nikki: Yeah, I have so many answers to that. So the first thing that I would say is you want to start to recognize that sales isn’t about you, and it’s not something you’re doing for yourself. It’s your way to be of service to somebody who has expressed some type of a need or a struggle or a want, and you have figured out that you have something that would help solve that problem, that need, that want that they have. And I would say there have to be three things in present in order for you to really have permission to sell to somebody. So they need to have a need, you need to have a solution, and you need to ask for permission.

Nikki: So if you’re just showing up and being like, I looked at your website and you should totally hire me, we all get those emails all day long, and we get those calls, and we get those. Those people who show up at networking meetings are like, oh, my gosh, I do this, and here’s all the things that make me so great. And you should totally hire. And you’re like, who are you and what? I don’t even know. Like, you don’t even know what my business is. So if you don’t have permission to sell to somebody, I don’t believe that you should. So when those three things are in place, it takes the pressure off of you to feel like you’re doing something to somebody. And now we’re in conversation. Now we’re doing something with. We’re. We’re showing up of being of service.

Nikki: And that is so crucial to taking that. Like, it’s not about me, it’s about them. So I always say, you know, relationship first and rapport always. And everything I teach is based on this foundation of rapport. So I teach how to build rapport, how to keep in rapport when you fall out of rapport, how to get back in rapport. So it’s a lot about rapport because we want to buy from people that don’t treat us like a wallet, don’t treat us like we’re walking around with dollar signs in our eyes, and that’s all they see in us. It’s like, I’m a person. I want to be talked to like, I’m a person. So when you show up and you extend that respect to the person you’re in conversation with, they are much more likely to want to hear what you have to say.

Nikki: They’re much more likely to want to be open with you about what’s going on for them. And they’re much more likely to be willing to consider your solution, your offer. So it takes the pressure off.

Stacy: These are such fabulous ways for people to start to think about their selling process. And it just makes me think back. I’ve been in business for over 15 years now, and in the beginning, of course, it was kind of like fumbling around and trying to figure out how to do all this. One of the things that I use as a kind of baseline for my conversations with the future authors that I get to speak with is that I try to listen 80% of the call. Like, is that like a good. That’s my, that’s my rule.

Stacy: It’s like, I just want to listen, I want to ask them about their vision, I want to understand their roadblocks and like just let them download and then if I’m not the right solution, I still want to serve them and get them to where I think that they need to go and help. And of course I have some vetting steps before I’ll get on a call to ensure that we’re, you know, we’re both getting value out of that time that we’re spending together. But even with that, you sometimes get on a call and it’s somebody that just, it’s just not the right fit. So still having that mindset of like building this connection with this person, serving them. Well, I’d love to know your response to these, like, guiding principles.

Stacy: And maybe you have a different way to think about it or a different formula.

Nikki: Well, I absolutely agree with the things that you’re saying and I’ll say from the way that I teach and the things that I focus on that I know will make a difference in clients lives is it’s about the questions that you ask. So when you talk about listening, you have to ask really smart questions and then you have to be willing to listen. You have to zip it. You got to like, put your lips together, stop talking, let them respond and share now, because it is your time and their time. I believe that there should always be a balance of power in the conversation. You can’t hold all the power in the conversation because that person will feel like this feels out of alignment and they’ll go find someone else to work with.

Nikki: You can’t give the prospect all the power in the conversation because unfortunately, human nature is they’ll abuse it and they won’t value what you offer. So there has to be a balance. So it’s not that you can’t talk, but if you feel like, oh, I go into a sales conversation and I’m supposed to be the monkey and dance and I’m supposed to be like, here’s how great I am. Here’s all the things I’ve done, here’s. They don’t care. They don’t care yet. They only care about their problem and what’s going on for them. And so the way that you get to the heart of that is by asking really smart questions. And so instead of like having to essentially give your resume about how amazing you are and all the things you’ve Accomplished.

Nikki: I teach a process around how to craft what I call your expertise. Questions that plant seeds, by the way. You ask the question that lets the person know, oh, my gosh, Stacy just asked me a question that makes me go, I need Stacy in my life. Because nobody else has asked me this question. And now it’s got me thinking, because really, your job is not to convince anybody to buy from you. They will convince themselves that you are the right solution when you ask really smart questions and you’re strategic about how that goes. And the other thing, there’s another type of question that I teach, which is what I call the right fit questions. Because, again, balance of power. We are not here to just take anybody as a client. Right?

Nikki: We want to know that the clients we’re going to work with are going to get an impact on the things that we deliver. So we don’t want to take on people that are going to be dissatisfied or not participate in the process or. So you have to be able to identify your right fit clients. And that’s through again, through the type of questions that you ask. And if you establish early on in that conversation that you’re talking to somebody who isn’t a right fit, you’re not obligated to do anything else for them. You’re not obligated to even let them sign up to work with you.

Nikki: What you are obligated, I think, to do from a, like, you know, putting out, like, goodness into the world is bless and release them in a very kind way so that they can go on and find a different solution that is a better fit for their problem or their struggle. So it’s okay to bless and release people. You can do it in a kind way so they don’t feel like, oh, my gosh, Nikki just made me feel terrible about myself, and obviously she doesn’t think I’m good enough to work with her. Like, no, I don’t ever want anybody to leave, even if I say to them in a really kind way, you know, I get a. I get a sense that what I offer is not the right next step for you.

Nikki: So I just think it probably makes sense that we bring this conversation to a close. I am so happy to have met you. Thank you so much for your time, and I wish you well, like that. I’m not giving a bunch of story. I’m not saying it’s not you, it’s me. It’s like, no, it’s just.

Nikki: This is what it is. Bless and release. Move on.

Stacy: I love that. I love that so much. And it’s. It reminded me of. I was on this terrible sales. I was on the receiving end of the sales conversation once. It was for one of the, like, a guy that worked for one of the sharks at Shark for Shark Tank. Okay. I can’t remember which shark. I’d have to look it up. And I don’t want to, like, name blast them.

Nikki: Right, right.

Stacy: I got on this conversation first. Like, the guy couldn’t get on video. We eventually, like, got on a phone and he pitched me this thing. And I said, because I believe also as the recipient of a sales pitch, you should tell somebody if you’re not interested and be really clear with them and direct. So I said, thank you so much for sharing with me. I’m not interested right now. And he goes, okay, Stacy. And he hung up on me. And I just stood there and I just stared at my phone. I was like, did that really. Okay, Stacy, it’s just so bad. I wanted to ask you. I had to share that story. It’s just, like, one of the worst I have. I do want to know. I love getting, like, specific. I think it’s so helpful for people to hear practical examples.

Stacy: So when you’re on these conversations and, you know, you want to ask these questions with this balance, could you give us a couple examples of what those questions might look like?

Nikki: Yeah. So. Well, first and foremost is you want to ask permission to ask the question. So in order to create rapport when you’re on a sales call, it’s important that you create safety first. And the way you create safety is by letting the other person know kind of what the structure of the meeting is and what’s going to happen, and then asking permission to ask questions. Because there’s nothing worse than somebody who just launches into questions like, okay, Stacy, you know, I need to know all these things about you so that I can tell you.

Stacy: On that call I mentioned, I’m not surprised. All the bad that can happen.

Nikki: Yeah. So I call that pre framing. This is. This is the way that you start the call. So the way you would pre frame is you might say, thank you so much for taking this time to meet with me today. The purpose of our call is to find out a little bit more about what’s going on with you and your idea around your message that you want to put out into the world. Or we’re scheduled to chat for about. And then you insert the amount of time. This is so important. Don’t skip this part. How however much time you have allocated for that call. And then you say, does that still work in your schedule? Because we all live and breathe our calendars, we all get emergencies, life happens.

Nikki: And if somebody is on a call with you and they go, I really only have 15 minutes to talk to Stacy. But she’s saying, we’re going to talk for 30, we want to know that up front. Because all they’re going to be focused on is like the countdown of the timer. If, if they need to go, if they’ve got a meeting, they got to go pick the kids up, whatever it is. So check to see about timing. Also it sets the stage. Like this is not a pick Stacy’s brain session. You don’t get like free coaching from her. So does that time still work for you? And then you say now, in order to make this time meaningful and productive for you, is it okay if I start with a couple quick questions?

Nikki: And most people of course are going to say, oh yeah, that’s fine. Because now you just set the stage of what’s going to happen and you ask their permission. Then you launch into your set list of questions. Now here’s one question that most people don’t ask that will help you in establishing right fit, but it’ll also help you when you get to the proposal step of the conversation. I guess I didn’t actually say I do teach a five step process. For our sales conversation successful, I wrote my third book around it. It’s called the Selling Staircase. And I teach it as staircase because most people understand that you go up a staircase one step at a time. You don’t step, you don’t stand at the bottom and hop up to the top step.

Nikki: So if you know what step you’re on, it’s easier for you as the seller to move and guide people through the process without overwhelming them or without missing steps that leave people feeling confused and sometimes annoyed and having this like, okay, Stacy, kind of like you never want to leave people with that. So you’re going to ask the permission. And then the question that I would recommend, one of your very first question is what’s important to you right now in regards to? And then you insert your context. So what’s important to you right now in regards to putting your book out into the world and that language that they’re going to give you to, their answer is essentially saying, here is the blueprint of how to earn my business. So we want to pay attention to that.

Nikki: Now if they give you answer that’s like crazy off the rails, you might also be Able to identify, like, oh, their reason for putting this book out into the world maybe doesn’t align with my business and the practice. So that’s also an indicator of, like, I might bless and release here. But ask that question first.

Stacy: I love that question. I think it’s also a nice way to put. To make people feel taken care of. In the call. I have a. Well, now I’m like, okay, I’ve got to rethink how I do these. But, you know, when I get on a call with somebody, I do come in and, like, give them the structure because I know what it feels like to be on the other side of that. I’ve been on sales calls where I get on, and I’m the one going, so how do you want to do? You know? And that just immediately loses me in just. You want to. If you’re hiring somebody for, like, a service, for example, you want to feel like you’re not going to have to do every, you know, you don’t want to feel like you have to hold their hand.

Stacy: You want them to take charge and solve your problem. You don’t want to feel like you’re guiding. And I, when that happens to me, I’m, as a recipient, I’m like, out within the first five seconds if I don’t feel that sense from them.

Nikki: Yeah. Your job is to earn the business, and your job is to guide the conversation as the seller. If you let the client or expect the client to guide the conversation will very rarely ever lead to you actually closing the sale because they don’t know what to ask, they don’t know what to do, they don’t know what to cover. That’s your job to know. And then the other thing that can happen sometimes is if you let the client totally control that or the prospect in this case is they will take it off the rails of doing stuff like. So, Stacy, when I was five, this is the experience I have. And you’re like, wait, I’m starting at 5? Yes. Right. And then now you’re like, oh, my gosh, this is going to turn into a time suck.

Nikki: And, you know, and then you never get to the place where you get to even lay out the offer or the process of what it’s like to have somebody like you take over and help them get their book out into the market. So super important that you, again, you ask to lead by asking about, you know, getting permission to ask the questions. And then that’s you saying, in a really kind way, I’m now going to take the lead because the person who’s asking the questions in the conversations, in the conversation holds the power, which again, we want there to be a, a nice dynamic of power like both parties have to have power in the conversation. So you don’t ask all the questions and not give them an opportunity to ask questions.

Nikki: But you do recognize it’s your job to lead and guide that meeting.

Stacy: So. Good. Okay, I want to take us in a slightly different direction and I’ll, I’ll share an area that’s been a huge growth, continuing area of growth for me actually, which is personally at least since I’ve gotten more mature in my business, I’ve always felt very comfortable in these one to one calls with people that were exploring working together. But as my business grew, I made a transition in my business five or six years ago, where I went from like a freelancer solopreneur to having a team and you know, program and all that stuff. And I know that this challenge that I’m about to share is a universal challenge because I’ve had many conversations about this.

Stacy: You might be comfortable in the sales conversation with a person, a human one to one, but then you go to do webinars or you go to do, you know, like some kind of like a challenge where you pitch people to your program or your service, but it’s in a format that you either don’t even see the people, it’s in a webinar format, or it’s a one to many format that is so challenging for people to go. Even if you have comfort in the sales conversation in these other contexts to come and now have to sell one to many instead of one to one, what are some of the things that people need to think about when they’re transitioning from those two environments?

Nikki: Okay, so couple things is remember that people want to be seen as individuals. So even if you’re selling in A1 to many, still talk as if you’re. The offer is for the person so talk to, so don’t like. So for everyone here, all of you are going to be able to do this. It’s like, so this is the offer for you and this is how it’s going to benefit you. So because we’re sitting here thinking about how does this apply to me? They’re not thinking about how does this apply to these people who have their camera off that I don’t even know, like they don’t care. So it’s still think about. And I say this too in your emails, like if you’re, even if you’re sending out a newsletter or if you’re sending out an offer in an email. We read emails as individuals.

Nikki: We make decisions as individuals. And not that we don’t want to know what other people are doing. I don’t mean that, but talk to the person. So if everybody has their camera off. And believe me, I’m in these situations all the time because I present all the time virtually and in person. But, you know, there’s times where not one person has their camera on. So I do this thing where I actually have my ideal client. I have a whole ideal client profile. She has a name. And so I picture her sitting in front of me and as if I’m having a conversation with her. Now, sometimes I’ll bring other people into the room, even though, again, they’re not physically in the room with me. But it’s like people who boost my energy, people who I feel really good about having conversation with.

Nikki: People who are fans of mine. Right. I don’t mean fan like, I’m really a big deal. I mean, just like people in my personal life who think, nikki, you’re a good person. I really like you’re funny, or you’re this or you’re that. The people who think highly of me, sometimes I bring them into the room and I imagine them sitting there, like, cheering me on. From my background in nlp, we learn about something called Beamers. So beamers are behavioral emoji, let me say. I just, like, lost it. Behavioral emotional response. A behavioral emotional response. I don’t think I’m saying it exactly right, but the idea is when you have beamers in the audience, they’re the people who are, like, leaning in. They’re the people who are nodding. Their eyes are lighting up when you’re saying things.

Nikki: And as a presenter, when you’re in a live room, like, I just did a workshop where there were. I think there were, like, 350 people in this room. So the lights were on. I was up on this big stage, and, you know, I couldn’t see everybody’s face in the audience, but I could see some faces and those people that beam at you. When you’re a speaker on stage, you kind of want to talk to them. So it’s. It’s important to remember that you’re talking to everybody. You know, that your eyes don’t. Just because those beamers can, like, draw you in. Because it’s like, oh, here’s somebody who’s really into my message. So even if you can’t see them, imagine you have beamers. In the audience. And like, how would you present your offer to your Beamers?

Nikki: And then one other little, like, structural, like, strategy here is when you are going to present an offer, if you’re doing a workshop or you’re doing some kind of live event, and you can’t always see the people, one of the things that you do want to do is you want to set them up for success early on so they know that an offer is coming. So you pre frame at the start of your presentation or at the start of your event, whatever it is, and you let them know that there’s an offer that’s going to come. So it doesn’t feel like, oh, she’s just selling to me the whole time. It’s like, we’re going to, like, here’s what you’re here for. This is what we’re going to focus on. Now many of you are going to want more.

Nikki: And so I have a special offer. It’s coming. We’ll talk about it before we do the Q and A. So now they’re prepped and they’re ready for it. So then when you do transition to making your offer, they’re more open to receiving it because you prepped them and you created safety that an offer was going to come.

Stacy: These are such good tips. And I think it’s also how you don’t come off slimy. You know, when you’re in a presentation and you. It’s like a timeshare presentation, right? Like they. They lure you in and then they just, like, keep you there and you’re like, So you’re really talking about values, anchored, authentic sales where people know what to expect and. And also it primes them by the time they get there. I love the Beamers. I love that concept. And I love them when you’re. When you’re speaking and they’re just, like, smiling at you. It really can make such a difference. I was also thinking, I don’t know if you’ve ever tried this, but when you were talking about picturing your ideal person, if you’re doing a virtual presentation, even, I don’t know, putting a picture of them. Yeah, Weird.

Stacy: But it seems like maybe I was thinking of one of my good friends who’s like a best friend, but like a business bestie too, who’s such a champion. And then maybe your Persona, you know, that you could put those up and they’re like, smiling at you and yes. Seems like a nice way to. To get. Get through what often feels very impersonal.

Nikki: Yeah. Set yourself up. For success. And just imagine that you’re talking to that person and you know when it. Because again, sales, even though it’s so great to present to a big room and you’ve got a lot of buyers and people are really excited, they still want to be treated as if it’s. It’s like just about them. Right? Like, they don’t care how many other buyers bought, they just care that they invested in themselves. And they’re going to take this next step with you. So there needs to be a little bit of humility, I think, on your part of showing up from this place of like, I am so honored to get to have this opportunity to be in front of you. And I’m going to do everything I can to make this experience as amazing for you as possible.

Nikki: And now people are going to go like, gosh, Stacy just makes me feel good. I can’t wait to get on a call with her. I know listening to your podcast, somebody that was on your podcast, that you actually helped them with their book and the way she was talking about you and the way that your process allowed for her to just feel really seen and then put her work out into the world that she was super proud of. Like, what an awesome experience. And every single one of your people, I’m sure, say that about you, but want that when they’re going in before they know what it’s going to be like. Like, they want the experience that your client just had of like, Stacy saw me, she really helped me, like bring out my message and that’s what they’re looking for.

Nikki: So make sure that energy is coming through.

Stacy: I love the way that you’re talking about this because I think, you know, especially this one, when you move into this one to many situation, it’s just like your first sales conversation is so new and kind of scary. And then you move into this new place. It’s so helpful to have a reframing around it and to really think about the service to that person and whether you. I mean, I’ve certainly had webinars that I’ve done where I have a couple hundred people there and I have somewhere I have like 3 and actually sometimes the 3 is even better. And I end up having a much like a lovely time and I end up working with them. Yeah. Because so it’s like sometimes also these things that are our worst case scenarios in our minds, like nobody’s gonna show up.

Stacy: And you know what, you know, all these things actually, if you have this mindset of like, oh, three people Came. We gotta have a really intimate conversation. Turn on your cameras. Let’s connect. You know, there’s. I think there’s always opportunity there. And I really like the way that you approach it because it also takes off some of the, I don’t know, pressure, fear, nervousness. Like, you’re serving people. It’s not. You’re not pulling the rug out from under them. You’re not being slimy. Like, you are serving them. You have something that will help them achieve their dreams or do whatever it is that they want to do in the world.

Nikki: Yeah. I think one of the biggest things is that we have this fear of rejection. Right? Like, what are they going to think about me? Or how are they going to feel about me when I sell to some, When I. When I put an offer in front of them. Right. Like, when I’m selling, you know, what their judgment is going to be. And I always relate this back to, you know, imagine that, you know, tonight you go out and you have an amazing meal at a restaurant, and it’s just fantastic. And every bite is super satisfying. And then the, you know, the wait staff person comes by at the end of your. Of your meal and says, can I show you the dessert menu? And you say, you know what? I would love to, but unfortunately, I’m so full. But thank you so much.

Nikki: You know, I really appreciate it, but thank you so much. No, that weight person doesn’t go back into the kitchen and be like, can you believe that broad? I offered her dessert and she rejected me. I’m so offended. Right. Like, they don’t care. And so the idea, though, now the flip side of this is if you go out and you have a really great meal and you’re kind of thinking, like, I’m in the mood for something sweet, and the waitstaff person comes by and they just slide your check right onto the table and, like, walk off. Well, all of a sudden, this, like, really good feeling that you had about the restaurant, it starts to diminish because you’re thinking to yourself, like, what the.

Nikki: They didn’t even offer me any dessert, and they just gave me my check and, like, sent me on my way. Well, that doesn’t feel good. So when you are in these situations where you’re presenting, where you have this opportunity and you don’t offer people the next step of, like, what’s possible for them, they leave feeling unsatisfied with that experience with you. And they may not even know that. It’s like, well, Stacy didn’t offer me anything. They’re Just like, I don’t know, it just didn’t feel right because the person who was sitting in the room going, like, stacy, I’m ready for your dessert platter. Whatever it is that you’re offering, I want to hear about it. And you don’t even offer it because you feel like, well, they’re going to judge me and I don’t want to come off salesy.

Nikki: They leave going like, oh, I guess Stacy doesn’t think I’m her kind of client. Or I guess Stacy doesn’t think my book matters in the world. Well, of course you don’t think that. You’re just caught up in, like, what are they thinking about you? So make sure that you put an offer in front of people and you give them that respect that they get to decide do they want the dessert or not. And either way, it’s okay. If they declined, fine. And if they say yes, awesome. Like, you’re both getting something out of this.

Stacy: It strikes me that in writing, one of the things that is a huge barrier for people is self referential thinking. Well, you know, this kind of like self monitoring, and it sounds like it’s very similar in a sales conversation. If you’re so kind of focused on, you know, yourself and potential perception, it can really hold you back. So I love all of these tips. I love this focus on service. I love this, you know, the dessert. It’s such a nice way to frame it. I’m going to ask you a question a little bit out of left field. And, you know, it’s. It’s just something that’s really on my mind as somebody who is a huge advocate for neurodiversity, somebody who, you know, this is a really important part of the workplace that I do in the world and. And just kind of uplifting.

Stacy: More neurodiversity in all aspects. Certainly in the field of author, you know, getting more authors to market as well. You know, you’re talking about rapport as a really important piece of sales. And we all have different brains and different ways that we relate to people. So, you know, I consider somebody maybe on the autism spectrum or somebody with ADHD who maybe has more trouble listening carefully in a conversation. Do you have any tips for these listeners that maybe would be a little different than a neurotypical person in a sales conversation?

Nikki: Well, I think the ultimate tip is take your cues from the other person. So if somebody has a different style than you don’t want to be the person who shows up and is like, well, here’s my Style, you need to adjust to me. Because as the salesperson or as the person wanting to earn their business, that’s the wrong approach. So you need to adjust to their style. And so if like, I had a client recently who said to me she was working with a few people in like a team call, and she was like, they never look in their camera. They look to the side when they’re talking and it’s like, well. And she’s like, and I’m really offended by it. And I was like, okay, you can be offended. Like, that’s your right. But they’re the client.

Nikki: And so if that’s their style, because maybe that’s where the camera, like that’s where your image is maybe on this side and maybe they’re looking over there or maybe they’re in high auditory processor and they don’t need to look at you in order to listen and talk. So you trying to show up and say like, well, this is my style and I want everybody to adjust to me, you’re going to be wildly unsatisfied with how the world responds. If you want to earn more business and you want to serve a wider clientele, you have to make adjustments to their style. And there could be a time where you might want to ask them, what’s your preferred style about this type of communication or what would make this easier for you? Nikki:
I had a client a few years back who was, you know, like, the way she would self describe herself is she would say, I’m incredibly shy and I’m incredibly awkward. Now, I don’t agree that she was awkward. I thought she was very charming, actually. But she did not want to have her camera on. It made her so uncomfortable that she just couldn’t ask like it was like it was stopping her from being able to ask me the question that she wanted to ask. So. But she wanted to see my, like, she wanted to see my face and she wanted to see my body language. So yeah, it’s awkward to sit there and coach to somebody when their screen is black, but that’s what she needed in order to get the most out of the session.

Nikki: So it’s not about my comfort level and about her having her camera on. It’s about adjusting to her. I don’t know. You tell me, how did I do? Did that. Does that. Is that kind of what you’re thinking or.

Stacy: I like the way that you, the stories that you gave. Because I think, you know, when we think about it being inclusive in the way that we interact with people, that means that we allow for a variety of ways that people need to engage. And I also, you know, I think as I’ve grown and matured, things that I used to react to or make an assumption about the person, I now put it through the lens of curiosity and go, maybe that person’s neurodiverse, maybe they have a different way of processing. And it doesn’t, actually doesn’t mean anything about me. It’s just what they need. I like that we got to talk about this because probably people will be in conversations. I’ve definitely been in tons of conversations where the other person didn’t turn on their camera.

Stacy: It is kind of awkward for me to sit there and be on camera and like, you know, be my, you know, I know they can see me, I can’t see them. However, that’s what they needed. And okay, let’s have the conversation. You know, so I, and I think that these are just things that when we are talking about these standard rules, there’s always these outliers. And actually the neurodiverse population is huge. So it’s not that big of an outlier. It’s just, you know, a lot of times it’s a lot of like masking and adapting. And it’s nice that you are talking about how to just let people be how they are and adapt to what they need in that conversation. So that’s really nice. I think that the challenge still lies if somebody is neurodiverse themselves.

Stacy: And in these sales conversations where maybe eye contact is really difficult for them, maybe, you know, they do struggle to listen for long periods of time. These are all things that they are going to have to learn how to adapt to in their sales style.

Nikki: Yeah. You know, my all time favorite quote, which I think will maybe speak to what you’re saying is, blessed are the flexible, for they shall not bent out of shape. And I teach clients often how to add flexibility to their behavior to put the other person at ease. So, yes, for somebody who’s neurodiverse, it might be a bigger stretch for them to make adjustments to the other person. And if that is something that’s within their capabilities, the more flexible they’re willing to be and the more they’re, you know, going to challenge themselves and push themselves a little bit outside their comfort zone and adjust to the other person, you’ll find that when you are willing to adjust to another person, oftentimes in order to stay in conversation with you, that other person will also start to adjust to you a little.

Nikki: Bit, so you’ll find some middle ground, but you have to be the first person willing to adjust. So just one example of this is very NLP is somebody has a different rate of speech than you. So let’s say that you’re talking to somebody who’s a really fast talker, and you’re not. And you’re somebody who. You have a thought, you think about it, and then you say it. Like, you know, having a conversation with somebody who, on a, you know, on a scale is like an 8 on a, you know, scale of 0 to 10, and you’re like, a 3 can be very uncomfortable. And. And actually, it will be really hard to earn somebody’s business who’s at an 8 as far as their rate of speech.

Nikki: If you stay at a three the whole time, they’ll find you hard to be in conversation with, and they’ll want to end that conversation as quickly as possible because it takes too much energy for them to engage with you. So if that’s the case, if you’re willing to speed up a little bit, you don’t have to speed up to an eight, because that’s unrealistic. And somebody who has a three on this scale of rate of speech, like, that’s a huge stretch. But if you could get yourself to a five, just even. Nikki:
Even that, like, couple little notches up, speed up just a little bit, you’ll find that the eight will start to slow down a little bit, and you guys will find a more, like, groove and a happier kind of medium to stay in conversation, and it’ll be more comfortable for both of you. Stacy:
Interesting. You know, I won’t take us down on a tangent, but I want to mention this because I think it’s really fascinating for people that are selling across cultures, especially I have an international business, so I’m talking to people all over the world all the time, and I listened to. I don’t know, Nikki, if you’ve ever heard the podcast Hidden Brain, it’s so good. I really love the podcast. It’s all neuroscience, so I think I would really enjoy it.

Nikki: I would totally geek out on it.

Stacy: They did an episode on cultural communication, and one of the things that really stuck with me is that even across the United States, but certainly globally, we pause differently in our conversations. And sometimes if you are talking with somebody who’s from a different culture and you’re feeling, like, out of sync with them, it might because you’re jumping in too quickly because your perceived appropriate pause is not the same as their perceived Appropriate pause. So when I’m talking with somebody who’s of a different culture, it could be east coast because I’m from the west coast, or it could be India or Australia. I don’t always remember to do this, but if I do feel like a little bit offness, I will try to pay attention to how they pause and I will try to match it. Kind of.

Stacy: At least kind of come into sync with them. It’s such a little tiny thing. But it’s interesting, I think, how some of these things, if you just start to be aware and don’t just assume that it’s like the person or it’s, you know, not going to be a good fit or whatever, and can make, to your point, some small adjustments, it can make a big difference. Nikki:
Yeah. I love the example you just gave. That’s a perfect example. When you’re talking to somebody else from a different culture or like just a different region or whatever, the pause is an important one. Yeah, I love that. I could totally go down and geek out with you on that.

Stacy: Well, they did a whole episode on it, so. And it’s like they brought in a neuroscience. It was. It’s really good. It was really.

Nikki: Yeah, I love that.

Stacy: See if I can find a link to that and include it in the show notes. I’m sure I can. Okay. I want to take us on a little bit of a different topic, and that is your book writing process. As you know, we have a lot of aspiring authors on this that listen to this podcast, and I would love to know how you leverage your experience in sales when you got into your own, like, book marketing process for your book. What did you. What did you draw from to help you be successful in selling your book?

Nikki: Well, in selling the book, I. I’ve written three. So just to be clear, the first book I wrote, I never thought anybody would read it. So I. I wasn’t strategic as far as, like, the idea of selling it because I really kind of wrote it just to see if I could. The second book I wrote because people were so surprised when I started talking about buying signals. They were like, what? What? People have buying signals? What Nikki? And it was just a way to put that content out into the market. And it really wasn’t until I got to the third book that I got a little bit more strategic around the selling process of it.

Nikki: And partly it was because I worked with somebody who helped me refine the process, and she had offered some advice that I could take, like kind of her structure and apply it to the things I knew about sales. So we did, like, I actually created a team of people who wanted to help with the book launch. And so we created this month long, really fun event. People had to apply to be a part of the team. And I think we got 60 applicants and we ended up. We didn’t. I think we only turned one person away. And that was because they had some like, weird criteria about whether they’re going to help or not. But really about 45 people of the 60 really got into it and kind of followed it along.

Nikki: So we did fun things to engage them and make it easy for them to read the book so then they could speak about the book. And then we rewarded them for doing certain activities and they got prizes. And so the book launch was this like month long thing leading up to the book actually, like hitting the market to get the team excited about it. That was a huge game changer. And people kind of like upped their game beyond things that we even asked them to do. Like, one person sent out an email to. She had a huge email list, so that wasn’t even something I asked, but she sent out this email to her whole email list of saying, like, talking about the book and what she enjoyed about it. Like little things like that. People, like recommended me for podcasts.

Nikki: And then I ended up getting my book in one of those business boxes where you get a box each month, you open it and it’s got like resources and stuff. And that was a huge game changer as well from the sales side. So when you have opportunities like that, you want to really maximize them. So for instance, when the book got put in the box, it wasn’t just the book they got. They got a free training, which then got them onto my email list. And once you’re on my email list, now I have permission to sell to you. So a lot of the people who got the book, read the book, wanted the training, signed up for the training that was free.

Nikki: It was an extra way to get them engaged and then convert them and be able to put offers in front of them. That was a game changer.

Stacy: That’s so good. I mean, it’s leveraging those relationships and fans and people that will be out there doing that work for you, with you, celebrating you. I love that. Plus, it was. I’m sure it was super fun to do that with all those people.

Nikki: Yeah.

Stacy: Okay, last question. I’ll ask you. Nikki, this is our every guest question and that’s if you could recommend one book to listeners, one that has really profoundly impacted Your life.

Nikki: What would it be from a. I’ll get, I’ll give it from a sales perspective because it really informed how I wanted to build the business that I ended up building and the way that I work. And it’s the go giver and it was written many years ago. They’ve written a few, you know, since then. But the whole idea around relationships and sales and how that plays a part of like building rapport and doing for others and not just always asking for things for yourself, but being willing to do for others even if nothing came back in return, like, that wasn’t what you. You were doing it from. A real spirit of generosity. That book for me was such a game changer because I was like, yes, this is how I think about sales. I felt like they were, they wrote it just for me.

Nikki: And this is the what I want to put out into the market so that other people have that experience of like, it doesn’t have to be odd or icky or weird. It can feel really good to both people in the conversation.

Stacy: Wonderful. I love that recommendation. We’ll be sure to link to that in the show notes as well. Nikki, I’d love to hear where people can learn more about you, follow you, tell our listeners where to find out more about you. Nikki:
Well, I would like to wrap it around a gift for your listeners. We talked a little bit about the questions that you ask in that consultation call and your right fit questions and your expertise questions. I have a training, it’s called seal the deal and I really break down in this training how to craft your ideal fit questions and how to craft your expertise questions to really set you up for success. Now normally I charge for this, but I want to just gift it to your audience so they can get it by going to yoursalesmaven.com beyond. So this is for your listeners. You’ll see on there’s a price, you know, scroll to the bottom, put in your information and it will zero it out for you.

Nikki: So you’ll get it for free from me and then we’ll be connected and then you’ll get some, some expertise on how to form your questions that are really going to set you up for success in your sales calls.

Stacy: Fabulous. I will be sure also to link to that in the show notes. Thank you, Nikki. Thank you so much for this conversation. I learned a lot. I know our listeners did too. And I also really enjoyed connecting with you.

Nikki: Same. Thank you very much.

Stacy: And thank you to you, our listener, our viewer, for being with us today like me. I hope you gained a ton from this conversation and maybe your next sales conversation will be a little bit more, a little happier than the previous ones. Thank you as always to Rita Dominguez for her production of this podcast. She is really like the entire reason this thing gets out into the world and I am grateful. And if you’re still here, if you would take just literally 30 seconds to rate and review this podcast in whatever app you’re listening to, it truly makes a difference in helping me reach more listeners with the message of living a life that is not just better, but beyond better. And I will be back with you before you know it.