Transcripts for Episode 162

These transcripts were generated by robots, not writers.

Ingrid: Well, given that the subtitle is Living Boldly, I hope that creative process shows in on the page. A lot of it is like, it’s one life. Step into it. Play, get creative, swing yourself from those constellations. Like, what do you got to lose? And the worst anyone can say, like, you know, going back to what you asked me about, like big roles at certain companies, like, I just put myself out there. I was like, what did I got to lose? They can say no. And that’s okay. I got a lot of no’s. For every single role that anyone sees that I’ve had were probably hundreds of no’s. But it’s putting yourself out there and just not being scared of rejection. Which it’s not that I don’t feel fear around rejection. I do total human and I think just getting comfortable with that doesn’t have a reflection on me. Let’s just keep going.

Stacy: Welcome to Beyond Better, a podcast that explores a simple but profound idea. We all deserve to lives we love and that includes our work lives too. I’m your host, Stacy Ennis, an author, book coach, speaker, and longtime location independent entrepreneur. Lived living in Portugal with my family of four. Join me as I talk business, location, independence, writing, publishing, and so much more. All focused on building a life that is beyond better. If you’re an aspiring nonfiction author, I would love to help you write your book. I help authors, aspiring authors just like you go from idea to draft. I do this through consulting, one one coaching and group programs.

Stacy: If you are ready to get serious about finally writing that book that’s been on your heart, on your mind, and probably has some kind of integration into your business, your brand, or your broader impact, I would love to connect with you. Welcome. Welcome. I’m really excited about this week’s conversation. We get to talk about identity, we get to talk about leadership, and we get to talk about the process of writing memoir, which is not something we get to talk about that often on the podcast. I spent a good portion of my graduate studies studying memoir. I read a lot of memoir and I love coaching memoir. And there’s a whole special kind of journey that you take when you are writing memoir. So we’ll get to dig into that today with this week’s guest. So let me introduce you to her.

Stacy: Ingrid Hu Dahl is the founder and CEO of her own coaching and consulting business specializing in leadership and inclusion and life transitions. Her career journey includes leadership roles at Meta gap Inc. Capital One, KQED and several nonprofit organizations. She is a TEDx speaker, a founding member of the Willie Mae Rock and Roll Camp for girls in Brooklyn, has performed in multiple touring bands and has written, filmed, and directed two short films on identity and mixed race experiences. Her memoir will be published in May 2025 by Page 2 Publishing. The title is Sun Shining on Morning, A Memoir of Identity, Loss and Living Boldly. Ingrid lives with her wife, Courtney, and dog, Palo Santo, in Sausalito, California. Ingrid, welcome.

Ingrid:Hi, Stacy. So great to be here with you.

Stacy: Ingrid, whenever I think about you, I just. I have this, like, interesting, I think, like, just life creation that comes up to me. I don’t know how to explain it exactly, but you’ve had, like, all of these different lives that you’ve lived, and it’s such a unique kind of just story of you’ve had these major leadership roles in big, huge companies that we all know you’re also. We’re a touring rock star. And you also have this experience as a child growing up mixed race and dealing with your queer identity with all of this. So you’ve had all of these just different, interesting experiences leading into the work you’re doing today. I would love to hear from you a bit about your backstory and what led you into the work that you do today as a leadership coach, consultant, and forthcoming author.

Ingrid:Oh, my goodness. Such a good question. And I like how you did the introduction to a memoir and, like, going through, like, oh, yeah, I Ingrid all day. I call them my vignettes. Like, when people ask me, like, hey, how are you in your mid-40s and you’re already writing a memoir, like, do you have that much to actually, like, share my. Huh? And there’s more. I have a lot more. And I feel really grateful that I’ve had, like, so much experience to then put onto the page and to share with readers, because I’ve learned a lot. And I would say that’s a really good bridge, too. A lot of the rules that I’ve had kind of come from this inner drive and resilience that probably comes from my mom. My mom is an incredible corporate climb the ladder, but tech pioneer.

Ingrid:And my father was very much more like, oh, cool, I’m going to cook from home and dance. And I think the gender roles were really helpful for me to know, like, you can find a supportive partner, whatever gender that is. For me, it was a woman. And my mom, it was really fine for me that she was out there. Come back. I think you recall from the book, like, she would, like, lay out her subway maps and tell me where she Journeyed and drinking whiskey sours with her team. So to me it felt like a non negotiable. Of course I would be in a leadership role just like her. And I went to a really important program at college.

Ingrid:So Rutgers University has an institute for women’s leadership and were trained early on, like how we could actually create transformational leadership and change in the world. I would say the additional training we got in public speaking really supported my immediate, like going onto stage and then being on stage as a musician at the same time just really solidified like the stages of home. So for, I’d say like for listeners out there, it’s like connecting the dots of a lot of these things and realizing like, hey, every role and position, every person you meet that you feel connected with is a bit of a constellation that’s meant for you to do something with it. And I do things with it. I absolutely cling onto those stars and figure out what does this mean? And let’s fling ourselves thoughtfully and have fun flying through the air.

Ingrid:Impossibility.

Stacy: When, when you go to do something big, like write a book like you just completed and you’re on the process of the publishing journey, one of the hardest things to do is actually to connect those dots and pull that into something that feels connected and cohesive. Especially when you’re writing about a pretty wide band of your life. What was that like for you? Pulling all these kind of threads of your life together to create a message out of that? Talk a little bit about that experience.

Ingrid:Yeah, I love that you asked that question. I’d say the identity part is always there. Like those what are you Questions around how I look or my mixed race ambiguity, like, you know, what is your ethnic background? Is always the what are you? Question that has stuck with me. It’s. It’s a never quite changing constant. So that wasn’t that difficult to connect the dots because it is always a through line. I’d say it was harder perhaps to connect the dots around my mom. So in my book there’s, you know, there’s a subtitle here around loss. And I had to kind of go back and really kind of carve out the memory that helped stitched for the reader the feelings that I actually have now today as an adult going through a process of grief.

Ingrid: And boy, writing a book when you’re processing grief is like very cathartic. But having to like carve out those gems because your memories get really like, you know, covered in soot, so to speak. So you’re like looking you know, dusting them off. It’s like you’re an excavator, or I’m an archeologist of my life, and then reminding myself of the feelings. It’s kind of like that movie Inside out and Inside out too. It’s like the strips. You’re freeing up the strip to be like, oh, yeah, okay. That’s where I was feeling this. And that’s why right now, as an adult, it feels so intense for me. It’s like, I think that’s a beautiful metaphor for any of us trying to sense me, what our current selves are experiencing and feeling by going and doing the work of, like, what is really going on here?

Ingrid:What is this voice? Where does this come from? So I really liked to, like, I got to have this magical moment with my mother where we actually realized that there was a dot connection beyond our own individual lives or our connection as, like, a relative, like mother, daughter. And it was, like, much longer. It was a lineage, ancestral connection that I was just, like, wowed by. And that’s kind of part of the curiosity of, like, unearthing those connections, just not just in your life, but beyond it. So I hope that answers your question.

Stacy: Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting. I was thinking a little bit as I was listening to your response about, you know, you’re talking about these explorations into these different kind of facets of your life and then pulling. Pulling that together into, you know, the book is. It is your story, but it’s an offering to the reader. And one of the things that I know a lot of memoirists struggle with is telling stories in a really full and complete way. So I want to just talk craft for a little bit, because I know one of the things that. That I got to see really evolve for you as a writer.

Stacy: You’re already a beautiful writer coming into the process, but was just this kind of depth that you were able to go into how you tell a story and the level of detail and the level of kind of connection and kind of, like, placing the reader into the. Into the moment and into that. Into that experience. Can you talk a little bit about your writing evolution and how you kind of discovered your voice as you wrote this book?

Ingrid:I really do feel like it was you who helped me discover that, and you’re certainly my witness to that, too. I had never had a book coach. I don’t know if many people do. It’s kind of new. But I think having somebody, like, they’re reading like you, reading, like, my first chapter and second chapter which were like.

Stacy: Oh, I don’t know, this is good.

Ingrid:Like, what are you getting out of it? You always like, encourage me. So I think it’s like a two part, like having a partner, a writing coach specifically guide you and read. And like, you never were like, hey, you better figure out your like writing voice. You were like, hey, you’re starting to come into your writing voice. And don’t worry about those three chapters or four chapters. You can go back and bring that voice back. And I think that was really encouraging. So just for people to know, you know, I remember somebody that was also a client of yours who I connected with was like, hey, it’s not like you sit down and just like the prolific writing just pours out like it’s quite a process. I felt like an infant.

Ingrid:I think I told you that I felt like an infant in writing this kind of book and this very intimate story and laying bare my story. And because I had never written quite like that, except maybe journaling, you allowed, I think, a lot of the space in terms of craft to formulate. Like, I, I was guided to get to where I needed and encouraged that I could go back and bring back that voice. So that I would say that’s how.

Stacy: I think one thing that you did especially well, that I think is very hard for people to do is you gave yourself freedom to play and experiment as a writer. And a lot of, I mean, all writers, not just new writers, even very experienced writers, there’s a fear of, I don’t know, writing something bad or, you know, like not sounding how you think you’re going to sound. And actually that is like the. One of the worst ways. Holding back is one of the worst ways to develop ways. I just saw you willing to play and experiment and be an artist in how you wrote and really like step into that without what I often see, which is, I don’t know, I, you know, I feel really like I. Who am I to write that?

Stacy: You know, this feeling of like, no, it’s just, I can’t go there, I can’t do that. And I think something about that approach really let you kind of like stretch yourself a bit and kind of discover what fit for you.

Ingrid:Well, given that the subtitle is Living Boldly, I hope that creative process shows in on the page. A lot of it is like, it’s one life. Step into it, play, get creative, swing yourself from those constellations. Like, what do you got to lose? And the worst anyone can say, like, you know, Going back to what you asked me about, like, big roles at certain companies, like, I just put myself out there. I was like, what have I got to lose? They can say no, and that’s okay. I got a lot of no’s. For every single role that anyone sees that I’ve had were probably hundreds of no’s. But it’s putting yourself out there and just not being scared of rejection, which it’s not that I don’t feel fear around rejection. I do. Total human.

Ingrid:And I think just getting comfortable with that doesn’t have a reflection on me. Let’s just keep going. And I think that’s very much the journey of the book. Like, the harder parts of writing, like, the deeper, like, more painful parts, I wouldn’t say I had play in those moments, but what I did have was this, like riding. Riding a bit of an emotional wave and then having my thoughts and the pen kind of go through this, like, flow. Like, I am feeling these feelings. It is really painful. Oh, my God. I’m rewriting things that I’m reliving. But even then relaxing that anxiousness around that drama and saying, let’s go through this and know that we understand what happens. But we’re here.

Ingrid: And if I’m feeling this right now, if tears are falling out of my face, how wonderful would it be for somebody else to feel this if they’re going through anything similar? Any kind of pain which everyone can connect on, everyone has had pain in the world. Then that makes me feel like I’m not just connecting to myself or to my story, but to, like, every reader. That’s amazing.

Stacy: It is amazing. I love that perspective. I would love to talk a little bit, like, just to piggyback on that conversation of rejection. And you have this. You. This quote that I pulled from you. It says, choosing to live your truth and be who you are is the most rebellious act against fear of rejection, disappointment, shame, and abandonment. I just. I think that’s such a powerful statement. It got me thinking about, you know, in my own life, one of my core, I guess I. Maybe I don’t know that I would put this as, like, a core value, but it’s a core. Like, anchor is choice and having choicefulness in all things. So never assuming that there is only A or B or that I can only do X or Y, but really approaching everything with a sense of freedom, of the capacity to choose.

Stacy: And that also means choosing out if something doesn’t align and making a different choice. But I think that generally that’s not how we are raised within, at least within American culture, because we are given this kind of one pathway that is defined as the right pathway and the good pathway, and that you kind of have to check these boxes, and then you’re good. Like, you get the human good award. How did you buck this idea in your own life? And I’d love to hear from you how, like, how can others begin to take on that mindset as well if they haven’t really operated from that perspective of choicefulness?

Ingrid:Gosh. As a leadership coach, a lot is coming up for me around clients that I’ve worked with who are struggling and also transforming and unraveling. I’d say that we don’t even realize when you’re young that we’re born into such limiting boxes and structures at play that aren’t there to say, yeah, go make choices and figure things out and challenge things. Live rebelliously and have fun doing it. I find that because of people putting a mirror up to my face and be like, what are. You don’t fit in this box at such a young age. Like, when you’re four and five years old and you’re like, what? It kind of made me feel a little bit like were in a bit like a Truman show or a Matrix. Like something was weird. And I was curious about that weirdness.

Ingrid:And that weirdness happened to be like systems of oppression and fear of difference, superiority. Like, there’s so much at play with, you know, how we’re raised and then society and then how teachers we interact with it goes on and on. Like, I remember telling you that, you know, teachers, plural, told me I wasn’t a good writer and I didn’t write well. And here I am writing this book. If people say things, and as a young person, they see it and they limit, they limit. And then suddenly our power is so nested under that same soot that I was explaining as analogy earlier. And it’s kind of like, about honoring and remembering that this is your life, your truth, and all the parts that you might not love, like, are part of you. That’s okay. Like, look at them. Embrace them. Like, connect with them.

Ingrid: Don’t reject them. There’s plenty of rejection. As I said out in the world, there’s threats of abandonment. Like, I went through that. I absolutely went through abandonment. And you’ll see in my journey. And it’s like, even with that being like, hey, if you choose to be gay, you risk this. You gotta pick your truth. You gotta pick yourself. And the irony Is that when you step into that truth and continue to choose yourself and choose the things that are real to you, even if it takes a long time, things shift in your ecosystem. Like in my family dynamic, it was as if I was suddenly seen finally and for all of myself and as a leader that I am, and that bravery and courage was like, it stood for something and it made a big impact in my world. And I was really surprised.

Ingrid: Like, that wasn’t what I was expecting. But I think it’s good for people to realize, like, even with those things at risk, if you choose yourself, you can’t go wrong. So keep going.

Stacy: I imagine in the coaching that you do, working with people that are in transition, this comes up a lot that especially I. I’m not, I’m not sure of all the kind of transitional phases you support people through, so maybe you could share a little bit about that. But any kind of transition necessitates self reflection and decision making. Sometimes it’s. It’s deciding not to decide, which is still a decision. Right. And kind of continuing forward. But certainly when somebody seeks out a coach like you, they are deciding to decide. Can you talk a little bit about some of the things that you’ve seen in your. In your coaching as people are grappling with this, this anchoring in their own truth and making sometimes kind of hard and scary choices to live boldly?

Ingrid: Yeah. Gosh, I love my clients. It’s so interesting seeing a window into the world of their lives. Nothing to the depth of how you, my writing coach, saw into my life. Like, no one’s journaling every day and handing it to me and saying, hey, before our session, can you read about my life? That would be so fascinating. But what I will say is by transition, it is this moment where it’s like, what. What isn’t satisfying me? It’s not, it’s not about, like, consumption satisfying, but there’s something tugging, like, tugging at me that’s like, I don’t feel like this is the career I really wanted. I don’t really know what I am meant to do, but I kind of want to start this company.

Ingrid: Like, I have CEOs who are like, grappling with feeling alone and a lot of pressure and like this deep relationship with control that they, like, wrestle with. It’s taking up a lot of energy. And yet their outward face has, they feel has to be a certain way. So just having to slow down and be curious about it and like, how does that serve you? And you know, really unearthing oh, we’re looking at this from the pressure of a parent. So what is just you? If it wasn’t just this parental kind of like reminder feeling like, what do you want? Or some other clients who are going through career transitions very simply or difficult manager. How do I deal with this? Like, I can’t stand it, we’re in a tornado.

Ingrid: Even though I’m not coaching both of those people, I can help the client recognize what’s triggering for them to look more at it, to like figure out like, hey, how do I want to be? I feel like I’ve been chained to have to be this type A person. But maybe you’re not that person. You’re like, what does it look like when you don’t have type A? And there’s some, so many wonderful pieces out there from evidence based like research. So you can pull all these tools, you know, like positive intelligence and appreciative inquiry. And so using that tools and having people feel like they have the freedom to discover, to play, to like visualize possibilities and to get information from those visualizations.

Ingrid: I see in these short one hour sessions a lot of light bulb moments go out and then a clear path of here’s what I want, here’s the bite sized thing I’m going to do. I commit to this, it’s my accountability. And then I’ll see you next week. And it’s amazing to be on that person’s journey.

Stacy: I love that you bring it to something really actionable. So there’s this whole exploratory piece which is incredibly important. But to actually start to take intentional action toward it and to have accountability toward that thing that they express that they want to do is so profound. It’s interesting because as we’re recording this, I’m getting ready for. I kind of borrowed Bill Gates’s term of Think Week, I think week next week. But it’s kind of like I’m renaming it Dream Week next week. So I kind of organized. I do this every year, but normally I go with a friend and we go on a retreat together. But I have another trip. I’m going to Edinburgh in London not too long after. So I, I thought my husband wouldn’t appreciate too much if I took two big trips within a few weeks.

Stacy: So I’m doing it locally. But it’s interesting listening to you talk about how you support your clients and dreaming and thinking in these divergent ways. I’m kind of going through myself, really. I’ve been in business for 15 years. I love what I do. And I know there are things that exist that I have been doing that maybe don’t need to be done that way. And I’m not seeing it right now. So I’m trying to unearth some awareness, even though I try very hard to be very aware of things. Like I’m a human being. Right. So. And you get into, you know, maybe a habit that you didn’t realize, or maybe you wrote something off a while ago and kind of went off your radar, but you want to reconsider it.

Stacy: I’m just curious, when your clients come to you, what are some of the things that you’re kind of unearthing in them to help them begin to develop some of this awareness that lets them get like, almost like a rubber band. You’re like, okay, I’m going to shoot you this direction, or you’re shooting yourself this direction now to go after the thing you want. Is it habits in their life? Is it limiting beliefs? Is it mindset? Is it something totally different?

Ingrid:It’s all of that. I thank you for listing those up. Yes, it’s all of that. It’s like being really curious and knowing that you’re there to listen, to uncover things that maybe they haven’t realized to ask questions about. Like, when you set that, where, what’s beneath that? What’s a belief beneath that? Well, it’s around this. And then you. It’s like the five why is like, why, why? But we don’t ask why in coaching. We ask what? And you find out. The client tends to find out. It’s like, oh, my gosh, I know exactly what that is. That’s a limiting belief around X. So we don’t, like, with coaching, you really stick to present to future, whereas in therapy, it’s very much like we’re looking at the past to get to the present. And then you go back into the past, like, heal.

Ingrid: It’s around healing, but there’s information in the past that helps us understand where we are in the  present. And I like taking in some of those nuggets to then help the client guide them to, you know, what have they already tried? What are they trying to accomplish? You know, what’s getting in their way? Do they really want that? Like, why do they want that? And I think when you have somebody that’s not a partner deeply listening to you, what you’re saying, what you’re not saying, your body language and feeling safe, like, there’s no bias, there’s no judgment, there’s no expectation. Like, you really A lot can happen in that space.

Ingrid:And I encourage you and whoever is like in this moment of block to hire a coach or a leadership coach because it’s kind of like a form of, in my mind, like self care. Like, why are we hurting ourselves trying to do this on our own? Like this thing we don’t know how to do, like, let’s get the support, ask for help. Like, for me, asking for help is hard. But I will tell you, Stacy, I would not be where I am today if I didn’t ask for your help and your expertise. It’s a slow kind of concept. So I don’t know. You want to coach me? You should talk.

Stacy: I know. I love it. I think it’s such a good piece of advice because sometimes, again, just going back to prevailing American culture, we are really taught that we must be self sufficient. Like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and solve your own problems. And even as far as, like a lot of things I had to shed moving out of the country were hiring domestic support so that weren’t doing everything on our own. It’s very frowned upon, you know, if you do it to a certain level. And that extends into business support, into coaching, into all of those things. Sometimes it’s easy. It could be easy for your clients to go, oh, it’s just, it’s me. I just can’t do it.

Stacy: But actually they just need somebody to hold their hand, to guide them, to expose them to parts of themselves that are unseen to them. They’re the unknown. Unknowns. Right. Cool and incredible process that you’re helping people through. I want to switch topic a little. I did not give you this as a prep question before we started talking. So this is like out of left field, but I have to ask you about it stages. One of the things that I think is so cool about you is that you just really feel at home on a stage. It’s a place where you feel yourself, you feel, you know, like it. Like you, of course you would be there and. But it’s in such a natural way. It doesn’t.
Stacy: The way that I see it and I see you is it’s really just this kind of like knowledge that you have meaning to bring to the people that you’re connecting with. This is such a huge struggle for so many people. On the one hand, they believe in their message, they believe in their expertise maybe, or they believe in their story, whatever it is that they want to share. And I’m looking at this mostly through the frame of authors because of Course they do. They’re working on a book, so they have this belief. But the other side of it is that is deep insecurity of whether that message is actually valuable to people. And this is true almost universally across the board.

Stacy: And, and from, you know, the most confident seeming founders CEOs that you would ever imagine are the same people that shed tears in a coaching session. Right. And I guess what I would love to hear from you and maybe you can help our listeners draw on some of that energy. How do you think about the stage and your role on it and what is it within you that is able to kind of step into those spaces with this really anchored confidence?

Ingrid: Oh, I used to teach public speaking workshops and coaching. Like it feels like a really long time ago because of the very real situation that you just like painted. You know, everybody tends to be horrified by the stage and very anxious and like all the things that are coming, you know, you’re feeling like fight, flight, freeze, the sweaty palms, like you’re jittering. And I think what’s fascinating about the stage is it’s actually not about you. And when you relax on the spotlight, like, you know, from my book that I have had a lot of spotlights that did not feel like I could, you know, control. They weren’t spotlights that I welcomed or invited. And when I’m on the stage, I feel like that is a spotlight I’d chosen. So it’s a different relationship for me.
Ingrid: And I do, you’re right, I do feel like I can be my playful, my witty, my like stand up comedian almost. You know, I channel my inner Ali Wong. My seriousness can come out. I say curse words when I’m not supposed to. Like, I am a bit rebellious on the stage. I’m used to thrashing my body in an instrument around on stage and I don’t have that. So it feels like comfortable, like light and bo and you can like do big things with your arms and I don’t know. But the main point, I think for me it’s not just that I’m playing on a stage and like yay. It is very much like I have this moment to connect with hundreds, maybe thousands of people. So, okay, they’re here. I want to connect with them. I want to give them something.

Ingrid: And what is the best way for me to get that to this person? Okay, well, it’s probably going to be laying spare, being really honest, being very authentic and sharing something, some of my power, showing some of the power and reminding them to shine their power. Too. So it’s not always about, like, I’m giving you something. Maybe I’m giving you a channel or a possibility to remind yourself that you have power and to, like, really cultivate and hold precious and nurture your power. Don’t just really give it away or just keep it withdrawn and not give it to anybody, including yourself. So that’s what it feels like. You know, if I. If I illuminate light in people, then the stage feels like a wonderful amplifier to do that. And, you know, with the book, I’m hoping to go on a tour in the spring.

Ingrid: I absolutely love all the kind of, like, employee resource groups, like, you know, like API Pride, Mixed Race Heritage Month. Like, I just want to, like, go to all the stages and talk about my book in this journey. But I also find that a lot of people who are in leadership roles and positions need to be reminded of their true light, because that spotlight is often feels very like, oh, it’s crushing. I didn’t really want this like this, and it’s not on my terms. And I understand that because I had that my entire life, and now I don’t allow that feeling or that, you know, external light to be on me like that. Like, no. My power and my light comes from the spotlight I’ve chosen. And for me, often that’s on the stage.

Stacy: That’s such a profound way to explain that. And I love that idea of the light. The other layer to this that I was thinking about is that you talk about choosing the spotlight. The behind the scenes of that, I think, is that you are very intentionally telling your own story. So often we go through our lives accepting other people’s definitions of us, stories that they tell about us. Just so many. So much of our self is defined by other people’s experience of us and how they, you know, this, how they introduce us to people or how they describe us. But going through the process of the book process, the process of creating a keynote or a workshop, there’s a lot of work and intentionality underpinning that. And when you show up to this stage, I know you do a lot of prep.

Stacy: And so a lot of times, I think, like, the most natural speakers are the ones who’ve done the most work beforehand. And I think that’s. That’s a myth that people hold that, oh, if you’re not a natural, you know, then you can’t do it. But actually, the naturalness comes from the practice and the intentionality. Has that been your experience in your journey?

Ingrid: I mean, there’s a Lot of practice. Yes. And the practice looks different for everybody. I also very much am not surprised. You know, a moment or, you know, 15 minutes before I’m on stage, especially if I’m in backstage and, like, there’s a bunch of people with, like, you know, mics, and they’re doing all this stuff. It’s like a whole production that can be really intimidating. You have an outro, welcome song to walk out of. Like, that’s. That’s kind of like high stakes. Or it could be really intimate. Like, any of those. I find that you never quite feel prepared enough.

Stacy: Yeah, that’s true.

Ingrid: And there’s always this moment where you feel scared, nervous, anxious. I do too. And I know I expect it to happen. And, like, sometimes for me, I actually have, like, an irritable bowel experience. I need to go to the bathroom. That’s pretty common for me. Even though I might show up on the stage a certain way. Like, oh, yeah. All the prep is also includes the body. And the body’s, like, preparing for, like, how do I show up in this way and get everything in line to deliver this, to be in this? And it takes body prep.

Ingrid: I’d also say a lot of it is like neuroscience, so really reducing the stress hormone cortisol and, like, re. Upping testosterone. Like, power stances, you know, feeling that playfulness, like, not really feeling like this is about you. Whatever you need to do mentally to kind of like, bring up the oxid, bring down the oxytocin. Wait, now I’m getting confused. Bring down cortisol, Bring up oxytocin. Like, joy. So when people see. When you come out on stage, like, sure, you’ll be nervous at first. Like, that’s still normal. But if you have oxytocin and joy and testosterone already up and reduce cortisol, so, like, centering yourself, people are immediately like, oh, ooh, like, I’m gonna what? Who’s this? Like, this is interesting. Less so. Like, when I see leaders come out and they’re like, I want to dominate this and I am the shit.

Ingrid:And you’re like, that’s one way to do that. But that tells me that they haven’t actually done the work to center, because where’s the oxytocin? Where’s the joy? It’s like testosterone with some cortisol still and maybe dopamine. But the centering version of getting on stage really grounds you. Like, this is my home. One other thing that I find that’s really helpful for people who are on stage Is actually two things. One is like reminding yourself that your mental brain, if it looks at the four corners and addresses the space, your brain immediately feels like it’s safe and it’s, like, covered the ground like, okay, I’m contained in this space. Got it. So you might start talking to somebody in the left corner, then see somebody you’re talking upper left, then upper right, then lower right. So immediately your brain is like, okay.

Ingrid: And I remind myself to talk as if I’m speaking through honey and moving like I’m dancing in honey. Because people can only receive in here a few words and a few key Messages in a 45 minute or less experience. Most of it is the movement, what they’re seeing, a little bit of how they’re feeling. So I find that, like, just being really thoughtful of, okay, when I do want to say some key messages, what’s the. What’s the key thing? I would really hope them to, like, leave and hear, but it’s more the experience that I’m hoping I generate to, like, open up that light. That was a lot.

Stacy: No, that was amazing. That was way more than I was expecting, and it was so great. I love that visual of the honey. And it got me thinking about one of my techniques. If I do get on stage and I feel any sense of butterflies or kind of like a racing heart, I start talking slowly and I, like, leave some pauses. Also, like, silence is one of the best ways to get people’s attention 100%. So I’ll do that. Like, I’ll talk really slowly, I’ll pause, and then I find myself totally fine after that. But my. What I want to do is, like, talk super fast and, like, get every, you know, like. So I try to do the opposite. But my dad also taught me this really cool technique. He’s a.

Stacy: He’s a chiropractor, and he does hypnotherapy as well for works with speakers and athletes and things like that. And he taught me this technique where when you’re feeling that kind of like, butterfly, like in your stomach, the gastrointestinal stuff that’s going on. He has me close my eyes and visualize butterflies, like, flapping rapidly, but then you visualize them slowing their wings and kind of settling so they’re not stopping. They’re just kind of like now settled with, like, these, like, slow wings. So you still have the energy, but it’s not the freneticness. And that really helps me. Just that visualization, I thought that was so cool.

Ingrid:My God, I love that visual and your dad, like, oh, so wise. I think all visualizations are really helpful. That’s a really good one.

Stacy: I like it because it’s like, so physical too. You can really kind of like, have like a somatic experience while you’re doing that. But I also love the honey.

Ingrid:Try that.

Stacy: I’m gonna try the honey. I think that’s a cool.

Ingrid:Yeah. I’m gonna try the butterflies. Oh, I love that. Maybe I won’t rush to the bathroom.

Stacy: Yeah.

Ingrid: Fifteen minutes before stage time.

Stacy: Oh, yeah. I know. And I also. I know I’ve read like, you really. Your digestion slows down right when you’re. When you have high cortisol because you’re redirecting to different. Like you’re redirecting the processes in your body. So digestion is one of those that slows down. So I know, like, I can’t eat very close at all because same. I’m all sick beforehand. Okay, man. I just feel like we could talk about so many various things in so many different directions. But I think what I’d like to close us out with is just reflecting on this process of kind of capturing your story and moving into this next phase of Ingrid’s impact on the world. Just looking back to the beginning, you’ve had so many.

Stacy: I know you said vignettes and how you kind of think about these stories, but I do kind of feel like it’s almost like these eras of your life and they all have feel very thematic. And so as your coach, getting to experience that with you as you captured all of that was a really amazing process to see you. To read it, but also to see you kind of grapple with that and. And tell that story. But I’d love to know a little bit about. As you have really intentionally kind of journeyed through this and you’re now, I wouldn’t say you’re redefining, but you’re. You’re really kind of intentionally setting out on this next phase. What has that. Like, what have you learned from this process of deep introspection and dreaming forward and how this book is going to impact readers?

Ingrid:My goodness. I would say what I’m realizing is that there’s so much more to learn. Like, it was wonderful. What a learning journey in writing this book and having you as my coach and getting to a place where I’m copy editing my book right now, talking about doing an audio recording and launching in May. And what does that look like? And it’s. It’s a lot of new and I’m learning Along the way by picturing myself like, I think there’s a sci fi book inside me. I think there’s like stuff I want to talk about, you know, beyond death. That there’s something curious, like it’s captured my curiosity and I want to see what other people think. And whether that’s in writing or in speaking it, I just think it’s a constant opportunity for us to learn and to grow.

Ingrid: And I want to get more and more comfortable as an adult being excited about play, as you’ve brought up, and also being that infant. Like, it doesn’t feel good to be bad at stuff or like be at that infant stage. But I. I’m curious about how many more infant experiences can I have because they yield so much when you step into them. They just do. So I kind of feel like as an adult looking towards like, you know, these later years, what can I let go of? What doesn’t serve me? Oh, I’m still grappling with these things. I wonder why is there something I haven’t considered Just being really curious.

Ingrid: And I’m really hoping that as I grow and mature and as the book, like I hope gets into the hands of readers or into their ears, that there’s more like kindness and connection and curiosity that spreads from that. And if I can amplify that on stage, I want to because I really feel like especially in the country I’m in the us there’s so much opportunity for that curiosity, that slowing down, that reducing cortisol, that leaning in and being like, oh wow, I never even thought about how me seeing that might actually harm this person. And that’s not because I’m a bad person. It’s that we’re in these systems that haven’t really allowed me to be curious and to not just immediately judge and to restack where I stand in like this hierarchy.

Ingrid: And that’s like, I hope that people want and see the opportunity to free themselves from those systems and dynamics that are quite harmful. And the more that I hope laying bare our stories can get people to like reconsider a different way of being.

Stacy: That was so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, Ingrid. To cap off our conversation, I’d love to know what you are most excited about right now in your work in life and where our listeners can learn more about you and be coached by you if they feel connected from this conversation.

Ingrid:Thanks, Stacy. Well, they can check out my website, which is myfullname.com or on LinkedIn. I absolutely love it when people reach out to me. I’ve had a couple of cold calls to help with leadership development or coaching. But what I’m most excited about, besides, you know, creating a book tour, of course, is public speaking. Like, I want to bring the book and myself on stage to every single company’s moment where they recognize queer people, Asian folk, mixed race folk heritage months and beyond. I love working with senior leaders who, again, as I said, need to remind themselves that there’s more to life than this high pressure, controlling intensity. And there’s freedom and liberation in laying bare and being authentic. So that’s what I’m excited about. I’m hoping those opportunities just continue. I also love being on the media.

Ingrid: I just want to hang out and connect. So whatever way I can amplify that Miles is where I want to be doing.

Stacy: Amazing. Well, we’ll be sure to link to your website and social media platforms in the show notes. And Ingrid, thank you so much for being with me today. I just loved our conversation.

Ingrid: It was such an honor. You are the best, Stacy. Thank you for everything you’ve done.

Stacy: Right back at you. Thank you, Ingrid.

Ingrid:All right, take care.

Stacy: And thank you to you, the listener, for joining us today. I know that you got some amazing things from this conversation with Ingrid, and I hope that it inspires you to go out and live boldly. Thank you as always to Rita Domingues for her production of this podcast. She truly makes everything possible from booking people to editing it to creating all the social media stuff. I truly could not do it without her and I am so grateful. And if you loved this episode, if you would do me the great honor of leaving a rating and review. It truly makes a huge difference in helping me reach more listeners with the message of beyond better. And I will be back with you before you know it.