Transcripts for Episode 125

These transcripts were generated by robots, not writers.

Regina: The first step is to find some time and space with yourself. So what you’ll learn in the book is that my healing really accelerated once I took three months off of work. So I had initially had planned to, of course, take some bereavement leave, but then I extended that leave and that opened up this world of possibility for me because. Because I now suddenly had time away from work and I had space to kind of figure things out. And so I’m not saying necessarily take three months off, although that’s awesome if you can. But even a weekend, it’s hard to envision a new life when you’re stuck in the thick of the muck.

Regina: So if you can carve out some time and some space away from your regular routine, your day to day, that’s when all of this inspiration and clarity can begin to flow to you.

Stacy: Welcome. I am so excited this week to get to dive into an incredible story, both of overcoming a really hard life experience, a loss, and then turning that into a really beautiful, full life. There’s so much to learn from this week’s guest, and we also get to dive into her writing process, which you know I love to talk about, and I’ll have many questions about that. So let me introduce you to this week’s guest.

Stacy: Regina Lawless helps high achieving women of color find purpose beyond their paycheck in order to experience more bliss in their lives and sustainable success at work and at home. Before starting bossy and blissful, Regina served as the head of diversity, equity, and inclusion Dei at Instagram. Regina has worked with Fortune 500 companies across various industries, including Target, intel, and Micron Technology. Her first book, do you? Will be published by Greenleaf Book Group in partnership with Fast Company. I should say was just published through Greenleaf Book group. Regina, welcome.

Regina: Thank you, Stacy. I’m so excited to be here.

Stacy: The first time I met you through our mutual friend, Misty Mejia, who we both love.

Regina: Yes.

Stacy: And the first time I met you, I got off that call with you, and I was just like, wow, this woman is incredible. And a lot of what it was, I think, that really struck me about you is your energy and your presence. You’re very present in how you kind of show up with other people in the work that you do in your life. And I didn’t know this at the time, but a lot of that was a result of a journey that you went through. And I’d love for you to talk a little bit about the journey that led you to the book that just came out.

Regina: Yeah. Gosh, so such a journey. But I’ll start the audience with kind of the corporate journey, because that’s really where things begin. I had started my corporate career in HR. I’ve been in the HR field for almost 20 years. And I was humming along, like most people, like, just kind of going through the motions in life and had kind of worked really hard to kind of navigate myself up the corporate ladder and had landed my dream job at Instagram. So I landed there in late 2020 as the head of DEI for Instagram. And it was a really important role, particularly at that time, because were coming off of the murder of George Floyd. And there was so much focus on just making sure that were progressing with racial equity and just expanding our definition of what equity was for all folks in the workplace.

Regina: So it was really exciting time. And then six months into that role, sadly, my husband passed away unexpectedly. So my husband, Al, died of a heart attack in May of 2021. And that fundamentally shifted my entire world. I had been with him for 21 years, and just everything that I knew was kind of wrapped around being a wife and a mom and work. And so once I lost him, I had to kind of first not only deal with the grief and the depression and the longing and the confusion, all of the complicated emotions that losing someone so close to you evokes, but I had a loss of identity over the years, and so I had to kind of reconnect with who I really was. And that is the story of this book, of how I went from seemingly having all this success.

Regina: And I did. I was very successful in my career, but I was missing something. I wasn’t fulfilled. And it took my husband dying for me to realize that and to go on a journey to find fulfillment.
Stacy: That journey started a long time before then. Right. You had many kind of personal health challenges. You had moments that caused reflection even before that massive shaking that you underwent of, like, life shaking you by the shoulders. What do you think it was that allowed you to finally make that full shift into a meaningful life, which that’s the journey of that book. It’s really leading into, you say, meaningful, F-U-L-L. Meaningful life. What was it that you tapped into that enabled you to move out of such a deep, hard space and into a really beautiful and present, which is what I touched on earlier, way of being in the world.
Regina: Yeah, I definitely had signals earlier throughout my life, and I describe them as whispers in the book, where even five years into my career, I knew something was off. I was working really hard and already facing burnout that early into my career, and I was pretending to be someone I was not because I wanted to fit in and move up the ladder. And being one of few black women in the companies I was working for, and certainly one of the few black women trying to get into leadership. And eventually in leadership, there was an enormous pressure to conform in those environments. And I feel like when you conform, you lose so much of yourself. You lose your way, in a sense. But I didn’t have the courage to go against the grain, partly because I didn’t know how.
Regina: I also had gotten to a point where once you get to a level of success, it’s really hard to walk away from that. Right. You get into not only a level of comfort, but you also have all of these things that you’ve built up for yourself. So I didn’t even know how to or have the courage to walk away. But when Al died, it’s like everything melted away, and I could see life for what it really was. That at the end of the day, all you really have is yourself and the relationships that you build with others. That’s all that really, truly matters.

Regina: And so with that clarity, it was like, okay, just working myself to exhaustion in a corporate job where I’m not feeling that my talents are being used, where I don’t feel like I’m coming alive every day is not worth it. That’s not what I want to be doing with my time. And the precious time that I have on earth for however long that might be.

Stacy: When you were talking about that exhaustion, it had me reflecting on this morning. I was a little grumpy today because my son was up most of the night. And then we had an event that went to for my daughter this morning, which put me a bit behind with work, things that I wanted to do. And I had this moment while I was sitting at the table just around lunchtime, eating my lunch, and I was like, why am I grumpy? I have so much flexibility. I was able to sleep a little later today. I was able to go to my daughter’s school today. And, yeah, I’m really tired, but it’s all in service of things that I want to be available for.

Stacy: And I feel that’s a very different type of exhaustion than what you’re describing, because what I’m hearing from you is it was not exhaustion at service of a bigger purpose or mission or something that you really wanted to be showing up for. It was exhaustion that was causing you to really question at the core of who you are, what’s the point of all of this? How do I want to show up in the world? Is that a fair kind of reflection, back and comparison?

Regina: Yeah. And I would say there were definitely points in my career where I was not doing work that was in service of something greater. I felt like early in my career in HR, I was like the. How would I describe. In some parts, I was like the Grim reaper, because no one generally likes HR. So when they would see me coming, it’s like, oh, the HR lady. Like, is she here to fire know? Or responding to fires to crises of various employees. But even when I got into something that I’m deeply passionate about, which is Dei, I still didn’t feel the fulfillment because I couldn’t do it in the way that was truest to me, because, again, when you work for a massive corporation, there are all these structures in place. I didn’t control my budget.

Regina: I didn’t control how many staff I could hire. I didn’t control even the strategy, because the strategy that I had for Instagram had to fit into a larger strategy for meta. So for me, that was difficult and was not as fulfilling because I didn’t get to bring my most creative ideas to bear. So I think that’s also something that can make you feel unfulfilled when you can’t work in the way that comes most natural to you, or you don’t have the freedom or flexibility to work in a way that makes you thrive.

Stacy: Did you ever hit any points in this kind of almost, like, self reckoning where you were asking yourself, like, why can’t you just be content? Or why can’t you just be grateful for where you are?
Regina: Oh, absolutely. Especially I felt guilty, and I still, if I’m being honest, sometimes feel guilty for walking away from such a prestigious role and at the level that I was, at the income that I was coming from, where I come from, this little black girl whose parents came from the rural, segregated south to kind of make a better life for themselves and then, of course, for their children. And so I know I was incredibly blessed and fortunate to have the job that I had and to be able to make a living and have the things that I have. So, yeah, part of me, especially when I was leaving, like, why can’t I just be satisfied? Most people would just be like, kick their feet up, get a paycheck. I was working from home, too, but there’s just such a deeper purpose in me.

Regina: And I think losing my husband really activated that. And I just couldn’t turn my back. And even still, some days I wake up and like, man, it would be easier just to just be getting a paycheck every two weeks instead of trying to figure it out every day. But I’m so much happier. I’m so much more fulfilled, and I have so much hope and excitement for the future. And I feel like I get to do what I was born to do now.

Stacy: I love all of that so much. And I know you’re in a lot of building phase. I just looked at your website, your latest iteration of your website, and it is gorgeous. It’s been so exciting to just see all of the things coming about for you in this next stage of your influence. Which brings me to your book. I want to, of course, get to talk about that, the book and the process. I’d love to know at what point as you went through this experience and you were coming to the other side of such a deeply difficult period of your life and arriving into a new space, where did you get the calling to begin to share that message more widely? How did you then take that step into saying yes to writing a book?

Stacy: I’d love to hear a little bit about that journey.

Regina: Yeah. So from the day after Al passed away, I began writing notes. That was one of the ways I coped with the overwhelming anxiety and sadness. So I began that morning after I wrote a note to him in my iPhone, just telling him how much I missed him. And so every day for more than a year, I would write these notes in my phone, or I would write. I keep a journal by my bedside. And so by the time a year or so had passed, I had all of these writings. I had even gone to a grief therapy writing group. And so that helped me to really process. And I realized, kind of looking back, that I had figured some things out through that writing.

Regina: I had figured out, it allowed me to reflect and understand what I had done to move forward in my life. And so that became a kind of voice inside of me, like, you’ve figured out some things that could help other people. And I remembered when I was kind of fresh in my grief, I was searching for information. I was on every blog I could find about kind of death and what it was like to be a widow. And I was reading all the books that I could find because I was searching for answers. And so I realized that I could be a source of maybe some answers, maybe some inspiration for someone else, but I didn’t know how. I’m like, I know I’m called to write this thing, to share my experience, but I didn’t even know how to begin.

Regina: And as fate would have it, I was having a conversation with our mutual friend, Misty, and she had mentioned that she was writing a book and had a fabulous book coach. And so I’m like, oh, I’m going to need that information. And she, of course, connected me with you. And that really started the official journey of constructing all of these stories that I had into a finished manuscript.

Stacy: What’s so cool about what you just told is that early journey of journaling, some of that ended up making its way into this book, and you were able to pull through that experience of getting those feelings down. And I just imagine if you had this book when you were going through this experience, what a beautiful gift to another woman who is living through something that is a big loss to her, whether it’s a spouse or a child or a friend or. I can imagine that this will be such a gift. I’d love to hear a little bit about the writing process for you.

Stacy: When I approach coaching, I do it in a way that really honors the space and time needed to write a great book, which is a bit different than how others in my industry teach it, especially when you’re writing something that will be part of your brand and speaking and all of the things that are to come. A lot of people want to kind of push that out quickly and get it out into the world, but we focused on good momentum, but really also giving you plenty of space to create a book that you are deeply proud of. And of course, along the way, there’s so many things that you have to journey through. Talk to me about that experience of writing about something that was so painful, first of all, but also just the act of doing the thing.

Stacy: Talk to me a little bit about that journey for you and what that was like.

Regina: Yeah. So in terms of the writing about something painful, I’ll start there. Thankfully, I had done a lot of work before writing this book in therapy, so I would not have been able to write as openly, as vulnerably, if that’s a word, as vulnerable as I believe this book to be without having already gotten in touch with those emotions and process them. So that was important, to be able to write about something without it being still raw. And then in terms of the writing process itself, I credit you all the time. Every time someone asks me how I wrote this book, I credit you, Stacy, because you have such a phenomenal process that, to your point, is a blend. And for me, it was the perfect blend of accountability.

Regina: You definitely kept me on schedule, but you also realized that I had a full time job and an entire life, and you gave me some flexibility when I was like, I need a few more days to finish this chapter. You were there to absolutely give me that time, but still hold me and hold the space. And so for me, my writing process, I would write early mornings because I wrote this book while I was still working full time at meta. And so I would get up early 536 in the morning and write. And you were good at helping me kind of calculate how many words I’d have to get in a day to kind of keep on track.

Regina: So I would aim for 1000, 502,000 words each writing session to try to make that timeline of about, I think, every two and a half weeks, if I’m remembering correctly, were aiming for me to finish a chapter, and I think that gave me wiggle room within that two and a half weeks to find the mornings that made sense for me to write. And sometimes I would get up and nothing would come. And in the beginning, I was really nervous about that and I would try to force it, but then I came to realize that the inspiration will come, and so I would just pick it back up the next day, and then it just would feel like the words were flowing on the page themselves with little effort. It was just coming through me.

Regina: And so I also have to say a big part of that writing process was the outline. So that’s what I think is such a powerful part of your process that you teach Stacy. I had a full outline to start with, so then it was like, once you helped me with constructing that outline, it was like, okay, now I know what chapter one, chapter two, et cetera, is supposed to be about. I have the intention. I have the building blocks. Now I just have to fill in the blanks, and that is so much easier than coming to a blank page. And, like, what am I supposed to be talking about today?

Stacy: It’s so helpful to have just those seeds planted already before you go to sit down. And I know one of the things we talked about is review whatever you’re planning to write the next day so you can do all that cool stuff that happens in your brain while you sleep. And when you wake up and you show up, which is a big part of it, you were such a star student in that you would show up, and you have to show up for the inspiration to come. Right. It doesn’t just magically appear. If you sit down once a month or even once a week, you really have to do that consistency.

Stacy: The other thing that I was thinking about, as you were sharing about the process that was a little unique to our working together is that you were already a writer coming in, and so we got to focus even a little bit deeper on that writer’s voice and that skill and really even further developing that piece of it, because I often tell people writing is a skill and book writing is a skill. They’re connected, but they’re different. And we ended up kind of focusing on both a little bit because we could, because you came in already with this foundation. Can you talk a little bit about that piece of it and finding your voice? Because a lot of people are afraid they’ll never find it when they get into this process.

Regina: Yeah, I would consider myself. I thought I was a pretty good writer coming into this, but you’re right.

Stacy: I will endorse that.

Regina: However, you are absolutely correct that it’s a different skill to write a book, because there’s a way that you construct the story to really make it make sense to the reader. And so what you helped me do, not only the technical aspects of how to construct the chapter and what’s the right tense to be using and things like that, but the voice piece, you helped me kind of tease out more of my authentic voice. And so in the book, if you read, do, you’ll see not only kind of the vulnerability that for folks that know me, I’m a pretty open book, and I love to share what I know. So you see that come across in the book that you help to tease out Stacy, but also even humor.

Regina: And even though you wouldn’t think that there’s humor in a book, so heavy, there is. And you helped me to really lean into my authentic voice and how I would say things while also keeping me true to making sure it made sense for the reader. So I think I know during this process, the questions that you asked me, the notes that you left me in the manuscript, helped me to go even further with explaining things and finding my voice as an author.

Stacy: I love the way that you describe that. And one of the things that I was looking for while were working together is where can I point out a sentence or a paragraph where your voice is really shining through? And then we would dissect that together and talk about what’s working really well. And it’s interesting because even in my having personally written so many books, it’s like every book, you also kind of need to find your stride and your voice within that work. For me, that’s also a journey of discovery as you go through and it kind of develops and then you get to the end and you end up revising some of the earlier chapters a little more often for voice as you find that through.

Stacy: I want to skip ahead a little bit to the journey of getting the book out into the world. We are recording this a little bit before the release, but it’s coming out the day after the book launches, so we’ll have to hypothesize on some of this, I think. But talk to us about that experience of holding the book in your hand, of starting to do interviews. I know you’ve had some pretty amazing interviews already. Talk a little bit about that. You had this very inward. We had kind of an insular experience.

Regina: Right.

Stacy: We’re together in this cozy little writing space, and then you get the draft in, and now you’re like, okay, world. I’m now moving out into this expansive space. Can you talk a little bit about that part of it?

Regina: It is simultaneously exhilarating and terrifying because, yeah, you go from like, it was you and I, you were my first reader, and it was like, okay, it’s almost like when your teacher grades your.
Stacy: Paper.

Regina: Your teacher likes it. That’s great. But is anybody else going to like this thing? So I’m still trying to figure out. Early reviews have been good, but hopefully other people more than like it. I want it to be useful to people, but the process has been really exciting. Once I had the finished manuscript, you kind of helped me, thankfully, to kind of figure out a publishing route. So that was part of the training with you, is just that there are different options to even getting the book out in the world. And so I ended up choosing the hybrid publishing route with Greenleaf Book group. They’ve been a fantastic partner, and I’m publishing under the fast Company press imprint. So that’s been incredible.

Regina: And so that’s kind of step one, after you write it, is how are you going to bring it out into the world? And then from there, you realize that even with a publishing partner, you still have to market the book yourself. And so I went on the journey to find a publicist that specialized in books that could help me. So I signed up with Smith Publicity to have them represent my book. And so that has led me to being connected to opportunities to be interviewed on kind of high profile podcasts. And you’ll see some articles come out from me in the near future. So that whole piece. And then there’s still a lot of grassroots. So I’m now in the stage where I’m a few weeks out from my launch. I’ve been pounding the pavement trying to get my book into local bookstores.

Regina: I have been reaching out to family, friends, neighbors, anybody with the pulse to help me promote the book, like write reviews. I’m planning a book launch celebration on February 9 in my hometown, Oakland, California, just to bring people together and commemorate this beautiful journey and what I consider a work of love and a work of art. So there’s so much, and hopefully people receive it well. So it’s kind of this journey of, you go from this very personal thing, and now I’m like, part of me is like, did I really just put all my business in the street? Now everybody know all the things, but, yeah, I did. And hopefully it’ll help people.

Stacy: Oh, my goodness. That is, I think, a shared sentiment by many authors who are realizing that they have told some of their most closely held stories and now they’re going out into the world. I love it so much. Part of writing this book was launching your next thing. When we met, you were still head of Dei at instagram. Now you have bossy and blissful. Can you talk about that and how you are know, really living your purpose through the work that you’re doing there?

Regina: Yeah. So I founded Bossy and blissful a couple months after I left Metta. And really, the purpose of this company is to be a source of community, but also a learning space for high achieving women of color, black women, leaders in particular. And that is because of my own lived experience, because of my own journey, of how hard it was to make it up the ranks and how much I sacrificed of myself to get there, and how much of my life, honestly I missed out on because I was so focused on work and following that traditional blueprint of success. And I write about this reckoning with myself, this realization that blueprint is broken. Anything that has you hyper focused on external success and not tapped into your own inner strength, your own inner wisdom, is not the right path.

Regina: And so bossy and blissful is really meant to give high achieving women a different avenue, a different paradigm to make sure that they are cultivating success that is full of purpose and meaning to them and living more blissful, bold, fun lives. Like, what readers will see in this book is that I went the opposite direction and overrotated on fun and joy. And now I’m living my best life. And I want to give those lessons and just give permission to other women that you can still be successful but enjoy life as well.

Stacy: One of the things that also seems to be providing that’s so beautiful is community. And one of the things that we talked a lot about while you were writing your book is that you would often be the only woman of color in a space, probably also the only woman, I would imagine, in many spaces as well, especially being in the tech industry. Has that been something, that community aspect, has that felt important as well to the women that are part of this movement that you’re creating?

Regina: Yeah. Yes. And I love how you frame it as a movement because that is my wish, that is my intention for this. That it is a movement where women can get together and through this shift in mindset and shift in how we show up in the world, we give more women permission. But yes, community has been. That’s really how bossy and blissful has started. So I’ve hosted a couple of in person events for kind of high achieving women, and it’s been beautiful. Like, everyone who’s attended has said that it’s something that was needed, that they felt like it was a safe space, were able to have fun. And there’s such a power in community, especially when you feel like you are the only in your respective workplace to get together with other women who look like you, who have similar challenges, is so refreshing.

Regina: And so that will continue to be a part of bossy and blissful. We’ll have these curated events, but I want to build it into a full online community where we can have chats, where we do kind of online workshops, so it’ll be a blend of online group coaching and group courses with in person events. I’m a huge proponent of getting people together because that’s how you can really let your hair down and then feel the energy and break bread.

Stacy: There is a story in your book about your birthday party that I think illustrates that perfectly, so readers will have to buy the book. It is the most fabulous birthday story I have ever heard read in my life. It’s amazing. One of the things that was so important to you when were working on your book was that it was not just telling a story, although that was really important to you, but that it was useful. And you already mentioned that a little bit earlier in this conversation. And in the book, you offer a framework. I’d love for you to talk a little bit about that framework and maybe give a little insight for the listener viewer on where they can go from where to where through this framework, and maybe a little bit about how that framework could be used in their life.

Regina: Yes. After I had kind of gone through my healing journey, roughly 18 months of trial and error, of kind of getting my life back on track, I reflected, looked back at my writings, and realized that I had done kind of five specific things to move me from really being in the worst place of my life, not knowing how to even move on, because I felt like I had lost everything to now thriving and even getting to the point where I having gotten to the point where I’m in love again. So it’s a kind of full circle of thriving again in life. But the five things that I did, first and foremost, I had to reconnect with my heart. So that’s the first pillar of the framework.

Regina: I had learned to suppress my feelings for a variety of reasons, and I write about kind of those reasons in the book, but I was very disconnected from my own feelings and didn’t know how to be vulnerable with myself, let alone with other people. So through therapy, journaling, I got back in touch with my emotions and was able to process the grief and other emotions that I had suppressed over the years. And then the second part was restoring my body. So I had worked really hard throughout my career and was in these cycles of burnout and had learned to really put my body by the wayside and just push through and work late, work weekends, do all these things, and wasn’t taking care of my physical health. So the grief, surprisingly, I didn’t realize that grief has a physical component.

Regina: People think about the mental and emotional anguish, but there’s a physical, and there’s research on this. Grief and trauma takes a toll on your physical body. And so I was exhausted. Like, I felt like I was in a car wreck, kind of following my husband’s passing. But slowly, I started to get up in the morning, walk my dog, stretch. I discovered yoga. So that created a routine for me that helped me to get my body back in line, like, just get physically healthy again. Thirdly, I had to reframe my beliefs. So our belief system controls so much of how we show up in the world and our behaviors. And I realized that I had been living in this belief system, that I have to work twice as hard. I have to do more. If I don’t do it, who will?

Regina: And there’s a variety of reasons why being a black woman trying to make it in the corporate space. And I write about kind of where that belief structure came from in the book, but I had to unwind that and give myself permission to not kind of work myself to exhaustion and to think differently about what success was and how I needed to kind of move through life. So I had to reframe that. And therapy was a big part of that. But just even living, like, having new experiences helped me to reframe, like, oh, okay, I can show up differently and get a different outcome and then renew your spirit. This is a big part that I learned through the book, and this I learned through actually taking time to do the things that made me happy.

Regina: So my birthday party is a story that is an example of that, where I completely splurged. Yeah. And danced. So that’s something that I have always loved to do and had forgotten about how much I love to dance. And so things like that, things like taking solo trips, like going to the spa, things that we don’t always make time to do for ourselves. That got me reconnected. Hanging out with friends and kind of spending time with my girlfriends from high school, that brought me back to kind of my roots and kind of reconnecting with this free spirited version of myself that I had let go over the years. So that helped me to renew my spirit. And then the fifth kind of part of the framework is to reinventure routines.

Regina: So I’m a pretty practical person, and so as much as I am creative and all the things, there’s a pragmatic part to me as well. And so I realized that I had created a routine for myself. Like, after I had tried all of these things, I had settled into a routine. And so that was important for me to call out in this framework, because without a routine, our entire life is made up of routines. So in order to have lasting change, you have to find a way to make these new behaviors a habit. And that’s what I did. I found the things that I liked and kind of created new routines so that they would stick.

Stacy: It’s all so thoughtfully organized, the framework and that concept of creativity and practicality, that must be the other reason. When I met you, I was like, yes, her. I find I’m so similar to you in that I have to have creative expression in my life in some form or fashion, but also to feel present, fulfilled. I have to have routine and habits that are serving me and allowing me to have the space I need to show up. Recently, I started taking piano lessons and singing, and those are things I’ve never really done before. But I’m finding that I did take piano for like, eight months when I was a kid. But getting that creative outlet at night when the kids go to bed and I can just badly play pop songs that I like, it’s so important.

Stacy: There may be somebody listening right now who’s really at the very start and they’re listening to this framework. And certainly, please buy the book if nothing else. It’s an amazing read, but so practical as well. What advice would you give to a woman who’s really resonating with your message, but maybe is feeling hesitant to take the first step toward a more meaningful life?

Regina: I love that question. So I would say the first step is to find some time and space with yourself. So what you’ll learn in the book is that my healing really accelerated once I took three months off of work. So I had initially had planned to, of course, take some bereavement leave, but then I extended that leave, and that opened up this world of possibility for me because I now suddenly had time away from work and I had space to kind of figure things out. And so I’m not saying necessarily take three months off, although that’s awesome if you can, but even a weekend. So one of the routines that I now do is once a year, I’ll take a solo, even if it’s just an overnight. I’ll go stay in a hotel and just have that time for myself to reflect.

Regina: So that’s really the first step. It’s hard to envision a new life when you’re stuck in the thick of the muck. So if you can carve out some time and some space away from your regular routine, your day to day, that’s when all of this inspiration and clarity can begin to flow to you. So get some time and space for yourself, and then you can begin to first envision what you want for your life and then put the steps into place to get there.

Stacy: That’s such a great piece of advice. And I imagine they could even start really small. It could be an hour at a coffee shop to sit and have to be a weekend away at the beginning. Regina, your book is called do you a journey of success, loss, and learning to live a meaningful life. It’s available wherever fine books are sold. It’s been such a joy connecting with you. Can you please tell our listeners, our viewers, where they can learn more about you and follow along with this movement that you are creating?

Regina: Yes. So you can find me on my website, reginalawless.com. You can sign up for my newsletter to keep abreast of all the things me do, you and bossy and blissful. And you can also follow me on social. I’m on Instagram at Regina Lawless as well as LinkedIn at Regina Lawless.

Stacy: Regina, thank you so much. It’s such a joy to get to connect with you about this. And congratulations. I’m so excited.

Regina: This has been my pleasure. Thank you, Stacy, for having me. And thank you for helping to make my dream come true.

Stacy: It’s been such an honor. And thank you to our listeners, our viewers for joining us today. I know that this had to be an incredibly useful discussion for you. And as always, thank you to Rita Domingues for producing this podcast and to Catherine Fishman for project support. I will be back with you before you know it.