Transcripts for Episode 143

These transcripts were generated by robots, not writers.

Vanessa: I have five different people working for me currently. That is the only way I am able to manage all of my businesses and my income streams, and I pay them percentages of whatever these products make in order to make sure that they’re happy and comfortable with what they’re doing, and so they continue to empower myself. The message there is you don’t need to do everything. You can be the ideas person and set it up the first time and then find people that you trust that can continue that legacy for you so you can really be open to whatever the world has to give to you at that time.

Stacy: Welcome, welcome. I am really excited to be here this week to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is living a life of your design, exploring the world, having adventures. And in a moment, I’m going to introduce you to my wonderful guest. Before I do, I’m going to read a recent podcast review because for me, this is everything right now in helping grow the podcast and reach more listeners. So this podcast review from as Darita Asdrida. She says, I absolutely love beyond better with Stacy Ennis. It’s such an amazing, high, valuable source of content in all things writing and publishing with incredible industry guests. Yes, I agree with that. Aspiring authors, you don’t want to miss this. Stacy also shares about her personal adventures in Portugal, the challenges and wins she comes across along the way in a fun and light tone.

Stacy: It’s like listening to a friend. Thank you Stacy, thank you so much for that review. I really appreciate you taking the time to rate and review the podcast. So for anybody listening watching, please, if you have a moment, take a time. Take time to review this in Apple podcasts. It makes a huge difference. And now on today’s guest. I am very excited to welcome Vanessa Menchaka Voughtmeister. She is a travel tech professional and the creator of the wealth and wanderlust platform, wander onwards. Vanessa is originally from Los Angeles, California. She is a proud Chicana, and she has been living abroad for the last ten years. Today, she helps people pursue financial and location independence through her move abroad masterclass financial literacy, digital products, and career workshops. She currently lives in Europe with her german husband, an italian cat. What’s your cat’s name?

Stacy: How do you pronounce that? Vanessa Huang.

Vanessa: It means little yellow. And then we just got a kitten three weeks ago named Xiao Long Bao, which means little soup dumpling.

Stacy: Anybody love it? Well, welcome, Vanessa. I’m so excited about our conversation today.

Vanessa: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Stacy: I want to start with your backstory and what led you into this, you know, international, adventurous lifestyle that you live today.

Vanessa: Well, I don’t know about you, Stacy, but I was super uncool in high school, and I was like, damn, there must be something better than this literally anywhere else. I’ll take a plane anywhere. So at 17 years old, I fundraised a trip to Morocco for two months to be a camp counselor. I slept in a tent with, like, a ravenous albino peacock for two months. And it was super fun to, like, have a whole new, like, cultural experience, to meet other kids like myself and have that cultural exchange. And from there, I was addicted. I was able to go abroad every year, paid my whole way through. And then when I graduated from college, I decided not to go to law school immediately. I took a gap year in China and then just stayed abroad and never looked back.

Stacy: Oh, I love that so much. You know, it’s interesting listening to your story, because I had a. I grew up in a very homogenous place that was very, like, you had this pathway that you were expected to follow. And within my community, too, it was like, you’re going to grow up and be a stay at home mom, and, like, this is your pathway. And that never resonated with me. And when we moved abroad to the Dominican Republic, right after my bachelor’s degree, it was like the whole world opened up. It was like I actually changed. My values didn’t change, but I really feel like I fundamentally changed my, just how I oriented in the world. And I’m curious for you, did that happen for you?

Stacy: I mean, you were younger than me, and when you had that first experience, what was that like for you?

Vanessa: Well, it gave me an opportunity to see who I was when I was completely stripped of anything that I could possibly leverage for privilege, so couldn’t speak the local language, didn’t know anyone there. I went with a church group because that was the only way my mom was going. Let me go to Morocco by myself. And it gave me the opportunity to one, reinvent myself in like the vision that I saw myself being versus whatever was going on in my high school and what I was enduring there. And secondly, it gave me the opportunity to just expand what I thought the world was like and what I thought muslim communities were like.

Vanessa: And that sort of thirst for knowledge and intimacy with different cultures outside my own that continues to drive me today, which is why I’ve lived in China, the UK, Turkey and Germany now in the last ten years.

Stacy: Yes. And I think it does create that kind of desire to then say, okay, I had this profound experience here. Now, what’s, what haven’t I experienced yet? What more is there out there? And yeah, I feel like for me, I’ve also lived in four countries outside of the US and I grow and change and develop more empathy and unlearn things too. Like I had the, I come with beliefs that are proven wrong a lot, and then that kind of forces me out of my comfort zone, which is interesting because it also aligns with being an entrepreneur, I think, in some ways, right. And it’s a continual growth journey. So tell me about the work that you do today. And I know you have many income streams, which we’re going to talk about a little bit later.

Stacy: But what you do is you help people make career pivots and actually kind of almost pick up their careers and move them to new places so they can continue doing the same thing in other locations. And I’d love for you to talk a little bit about that because I know so many people listening, they have this little light inside of them that’s like, oh, that would be amazing, but it’s not burning bright yet. They don’t yet believe that it’s a true possibility for them. So can you talk a little bit about that and why it actually is very possible for people to live abroad and to kind of reinvent in a new location?

Vanessa: Totally. So today I am a product manager for a global travel tech company that people have probably booked on before I initially started working with them in London, and then I was able to transfer my job to Munich, and then I got a new job within that company here in Berlin, and I actually just got promoted last week, so I congrats. Senior product manager now. And I’m probably the youngest senior product manager in our organization for whatever I do, which is platforms and APIs. So it’s very much possible to bring your nine to five abroad to thrive here, to continue that, like, good old fashioned american hustle, but in a different context and way. So, because I’m on a german contract, I get 35 days of holiday a year. I get a government pension, a private pension. I get $10,000 worth of travel.

Vanessa: We call it a benefit, a travel benefit. So I get to book travel at a discounted price. I have that benefit to book with travel, and then another $1,600 for, like, wellness. So moving your career abroad is worthwhile, it’s lucrative, and it gives you that, like, work life balance that you would not typically have in America.

Stacy: I’m curious to hear a little bit about life in Germany, because I’ve found. So I live in the Algarve in Portugal. It’s very chill here. It’s very relaxed. Restaurants will close for, like, two months out of the year so that people can spend time with their families. We live by the beach. We have, like, over a dozen beaches within 20 minutes of our house. It’s nice all year. So there’s all of these things that, to me, are so restful and restorative, but I am like an American when it comes to work. And so for me, it’s been such a good balance. It’s really, like, pushed. It’s pushed back on my natural way of functioning in the world and forced me to kind of reconsider the way that I even related to my business.

Stacy: And I found that actually, when I rest more and take that space, I’m actually doing better work. Crazy, right? But I’m curious, with your experiences in different places, has that been similar for you? Have you had to kind of readjust, or have you looked inward and shifted at all, or how has that worked for you?

Vanessa: Unfortunately, I am mexican american, so our toxic trait is, if there’s no work, we’ll find some work to do. And so that has kind of been something that’s haunted me since I’ve left America. Just, like, trying to slow down, trying to find time for my family, for myself, and because I work full time in the corporate space, and then all of my free time is dedicated to wander onwards and my clients there. I’ve had to really be creative with how I define personal time and then budget that time, because I would definitely say right now is the worst experience of my very short life on this planet only because I’m chasing german permanent residency and a passport. So in addition to working full time in tech, running my own business, I am also doing 16 hours of German every week.

Vanessa: And I have done 450 hours since September of last year. And I’ll be doing my qualification test May 13. So please wish me luck.

Stacy: Okay, well, good luck. Yes. And it’s no joke learning another language. I mean, I’m working on Portuguese right now, and it’s. It’s not easy at all. It’s a big challenge. Yeah, that’s interesting because I think it. You have this other. So you have, like, the american side, you have the mexican side, and now you’re working within this german culture, and then certainly you. I know I have been also shaped by all the different countries that I’ve lived in as well. So there is a lot of, like, a lot of. A lot of cultures at play when you live this more global lifestyle. And I know also with our kids, because we have kids that have.

Stacy: Now they’ve lived in two countries outside of the US, and it’s a challenge for us to still, like, have them understand american culture, because that’s actually, like, believe it or not, we do have a culture. I used to think we didn’t have one, but we do. And, like, still bringing them up and understanding their roots, but then getting to know the culture that you’re in, I find that to be, it’s like a space that I’ve never navigated before. And it sounds like you’re kind of in the thick of navigating that. But you have a german husband, so how has that kind of interplay been for the two of you as you’ve kind of built this life in Germany?

Vanessa: I’ve had to be a lot more intentional with how I preserve my latin culture over here. So from, like, cooking traditional dishes to going to traditional events that the mexican embassy puts on, I really try to make an effort to stay in the culture and in the community. And also, we’ve been using a lot of our Christmas vacation time to go to Latin America. And for me to show my husband, like, this is what the culture is about, this is what the language is. The real nail in the coffin for me, though, is going to be naming my children extremely mexican names. So they will be Ciramara Vaktmeister. Juan Jose Vaktmeister. I will scream at them in Spanish, and they’ll know it’s me because I’m the only one in this german playground screaming at them in Spanish.

Vanessa: But every single day is a choice to keep my culture alive. And then the american culture is a little bit easier to maintain because my husband is very used to Americans. He studied with them, he’s lived with them. And then I think the american culture is easier to preserve here in Europe because everyone’s so interested in it. They love our language, they love our movies. They have some other thoughts about our politics, which I don’t blame them on. But when people move abroad, you’re gonna notice everyone’s like, pop culture is just trying to copy american pop culture. But there’s a delay by, like, two to ten years, which I think is really interesting, given how much american slander there is on TikTok and all the other platforms.

Vanessa: A good comparison is watch too hot to handle with all the Americans and then watch the German too hot to handle. And you’ll notice that in the german version, they understand what a reality show is. But because the german culture is so perfectionist oriented, it ruins the magic of trashy reality tv because they’re all so posed and everything’s over lit. Even though it’s supposed to be in the middle of the night at a party, it’s pretty noticeable. But I love to consume that content. To point out all these different cultural differences.

Stacy: It is really interesting how ubiquitous american culture is around the world. I just was in the UK last week, and I think at least three people commented on how great my accent was, and I just thought it was so. It’s so funny. You know, it’s like I’m just talking, but I think because, you know, I’ve got this, like, standard, the standard american accent that you hear on movies and television. It’s, like, very interesting to people, which is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious to me. So we talked a little bit about some of the personal roadblocks that you faced, and, you know, just that it sounds like you have so much going on right now, but I’d love to look back on your journey a little bit further back, because many listeners, viewers, they’re not where we are living this life that we’ve built for many years.
Stacy: You said you’ve been abroad for ten years or you’ve kind of lived this lifestyle for ten years. Can you talk me through maybe one or two hardships that you’ve faced? Or maybe not hardships, but just roadblocks? That you’ve had to overcome, because those are very real. Right? It’s not like you’re like, yay, I got a job in Italy, okay. Life is perfect now. You don’t suddenly solve every issue or problem that you’re facing just by picking up and moving. So I’d love to hear from you a couple of things that you’ve had to overcome and how you dealt with them.

Vanessa: Well, an hour long podcast is not going to listen that you’re going to face. But I always, like, prepare my clients with the fact that the first year is always going to be the hardest. You’re going to need to sort out a visa for the first time. You’re going to need to navigate a culture that’s potentially not similar or not even in your native language. And that’s always like the cold water effect that people have when they first move abroad. Because you’re not used to making 18,000 pounds a year and trying to, like, live and budget on that. You’re not used to making a visa application every twelve months, that you realistically have to prepare three months in advance and then pray to whatever deity you believe in that you’ll get an appointment before your visa runs out.
Vanessa: And so I’ve almost been deported three times from China, the UK and Germany. People love me out here, obviously. I’ve made as little as 18,000 pounds a year living in London for my first job there. But even though we have these hardships as new folks abroad, it gets better because you get better and you have more experience with what it takes to land a job in a foreign country. Pay your taxes in both that country and America. If you owe any money, remember, you always have to file if you’re abroad. And now I think I’m at like, my apex predator stage in my life because I have the local language, I have an incredible job in tech, have a wonderful partner, and my business is thriving.

Vanessa: So I like to tell people it’s my villain era, where for the first time, I get to choose what I want to do. I’m not going to have to make these visa applications anymore. And that’s what’s driving me to keep up this insane tempo, which is officially done May 13, and I’m going to Iceland to celebrate with my mom.

Stacy: Oh, amazing. Yeah. You know, I love that point about the first year being the hardest, because that’s absolutely been our experience, too. And it does also depend on how much support you have with the move. The first couple of times we moved, were teaching, and so we had everything taken care of. I never even thought about my visa. It wasn’t even on mind. And then the second, the next two times that we moved, we had no help. Thankfully, with Portugal, we hired a relocation company and an attorney. And so that has made all the difference. Like, it was such a good. Such a good spend. Highly recommend anybody who has to do it on their own to get help, like a relocation service or an attorney. But then also, to your point, there’s, like, the settling in and getting used to the place.

Stacy: And I don’t know about you, but I have felt like it takes a full two years to actually feel, like, settled. Has that been your experience as well?

Vanessa: In the beginning of my journey abroad, yes. So it took me at least a year and a half to feel settled in China. And then I met a boy, and he was like, I know we’ve only known each other for three months, but will you move to London with me and quit your job, apartment, abandon all your friends? I said yes. And I followed this man to the UK. He’s now my husband. So it all worked out.

Stacy: It worked out, yes.

Vanessa: It’s okay. But it took me just as long to feel settled in the UK. Another year and a half. When we ended up moving to Germany, we had a nine week notice, and we had to do all of our own paperwork, all of our own logistics. They did give us a corporate budget to move all of our crap across the continent. But because we had so much experience in the past, it was just like riding a bicycle. We knew what to apply for when we knew how to get rid of all of our crap and how to prioritize what this move would include. And were able to move to Germany in nine weeks, the day before all of the airports closed for Covid.

Stacy: Oh, wow. Wow. That’s a. That’s like, a whole other element to that story.

Vanessa: Correct.

Stacy: That’s crazy.

Vanessa: I was supposed to stay back because I wanted to finish my visa in the UK. And so I had a room that I was renting. My husband was in Germany. I had all of my crap still in that room. And I just read the news that the airports were closing and the borders were closing, and I picked up what I could carry in a carry on and left the country. It was bonkers. But I had the confidence in myself, like, you’ve done this before. You know what you’re doing. Trust in your ability to figure it out and go before you get trapped outside of that country.

Stacy: That problem solving piece, I think, is so important because I’ve found this in my experience with all the different visa things that we’ve dealt with or crazy travel experiences, whatever, is that, like, oftentimes it seems like there’s only one option, but there actually are many options. You just have to be resourceful and figure it out. And also, like, you had this anchored confidence that you were wise and you could make a smart decision. And sometimes I think the people that I’ve seen fail, which I’ve seen, I’m sure you have, too. Lots and lots of people fail at living abroad because, well, it doesn’t fit for them right away, I think, is often the problem. And so they get it, like, four months, six months in, and they’re like, this is really hard. We screwed up.

Stacy: We made the worst decision of our life, and then they go home. And actually, if you go into it with this mindset of what you said and, like, okay, things are going to be really hard at first, but they can be amazing. And I need to keep that long term vision and be a problem solver and, like, look for solutions and know that there’s always another way to do the thing that I want to do. Those are the people that are successful and are able to build those, like, long and happy lives in other countries. Has that been your experience as well?

Vanessa: And I don’t know. Do you know what CrossFit is, or have you ever done a crossfit work?

Stacy: Okay, yes, but maybe explain it for listeners who may not be familiar with it.

Vanessa: Okay, so CrossFit is a cult for people who aren’t in cults, and I am in that crossfit space.

Stacy: I have not heard it described like that. That is hilarious. That’s hilarious.

Vanessa: Well, it’s a fitness lifestyle where we, like, have gurus and such, but it’s a great workout, and the reason I enjoy it so much is, in addition to the workout component, it’s a mental struggle against yourself. It’s a timed workout where you’re suffering through something. And for me, I’ve been doing it for ten years now. It’s a game. So I have made it through the first minute. Can I make it through another 30 seconds? All right, we’re done with two minutes. Can I do another minute? And it’s this, like, constant recognition that you’re almost there. You’re going through the movements. You don’t need to be perfect. You don’t need to be the best or the fastest. The fact that you’re there and just carrying on is what’s important. And that’s how I’m tackling these german classes right now, all 600 hours of them.

Vanessa: I don’t need to be the best in class. I just need my butt to be in that chair to say I was there. I don’t need to do my homework because I’m working full time as well. I just need to make the most of what I’m doing in that class when I’m there. And then every day I wake up and I’m like, damn, here we go again. I just need one more hour, just another more hour or just one more hour after that. And that’s how I’m able to, like, keep this mental resilience to continue to fight all of the problems that I face as a foreigner abroad.

Stacy: That was so beautifully said. And I wonder if there’s some listeners that are like, why? Like, why? Why do you want to fight so hard? I think that the other piece of that we touched on earlier is that there is so much beauty in building your own life the way that you want it to be. And you mentioned earlier these benefits of your job and this ability to take time away and invest in your wellness. I was just yesterday having a conversation with a close friend about some medical challenges in the US and being denied for certain things, the cost of things, and we have removed that problem from our life. The problem of medical care is no longer a problem. The problem of gun violence is no longer a problem.

Stacy: So there’s a lot of things that were not working for us where were living before that, even though there are a lot of hardships to get to the life that we have now. Like, we are so joyful and so anchored in this beautiful thing that we’ve created that we chose rather than, you know, defaulted into which no judgment. If you move into a life that was laid out for you and you’re happy, which actually, I have lots of friends that are, and they’re beautiful people and have such a happy life, that’s amazing. But if you have that, like, tightness in your chest that’s like, this doesn’t fit, there are other options, which is what you help people with in your business, help them move forward into other options. Can you talk about that? How does that work?

Stacy: How do people come to you and like, with this thing they want to do and end up on the other side doing the thing they want to do?

Vanessa: So normally people choose my move abroad masterclass because it’s a five week program. You’re with a bunch of other people who are doing the same thing and very often going to the same country or city that you want to go. So it’s like building a community abroad before you get abroad. And I often recommend this pathway instead of one to one coaching several times. One, because it’s more cost effective, and two, the process of moving abroad doesn’t change based off of what country that you’re moving to. Like, the visa qualifications are a little bit different, but it’s the same process. You still have the same timelines. Here’s how you access relocation services or, like, move your dog abroad.

Vanessa: And so all of that, I’ve condensed into a single location based off of my experiences, and I brought in a bunch of my friends who have also made the same move. So you can get ideas of what people have done and what works for them in different parts of the world and really find that inspiration that you need to know this is possible. I also do private career coaching. So it’s a five week plan where we revamp your LinkedIn, your resume, your interview skills. I pull jobs for you based off of my experience and knowledge of your background, but it’s very much like having an older sister walk you through the program and walk you through this big change in your life.

Vanessa: And I really wish this would have been there for me back in 2013 when I moved to China for the first time, because I don’t know what she was doing out there in China with no chinese skills, no network, and, like, no real understanding of what she’s doing. But I made it, and now we’re thriving after many mistakes over the years. And I also want to qualify. Like, people see my life and they’re like, I want that immediately. I want that tomorrow. I want the six figure job and the thriving personal business yesterday. I just try to manage those people’s expectations because it. It’s a compounding experience. You learn, you get better, you iterate, you figure out what’s right for you and how you can create that dream scenario for you. But it doesn’t happen yesterday. You know what I’m talking about?

Stacy: Absolutely. Yeah. It takes work. It can’t just, like, magic. Like, wave a magic wand and, like, suddenly you have the thing. It takes discipline and follow through and. And work. Yeah.

Vanessa: And disappointment. Like, there’s gonna be so many doors that are shut in your face. The first job I got, I had to apply to 200 jobs in the UK.

Vanessa:
And I also turn away folks that I don’t believe I can help or, like, have the wrong expectations coming into this one person in particular. This individual wanted a 200,000 job, 200,000 euro job in Portugal with just, like, not.

Stacy: Yeah, sorry, that is ridiculous. This, like, that is not. That’s not how this country works, people, just so you’re aware.

Vanessa: No, ma’am. No, ma’am. And I like my qualifications and, like, integrity as a coach was called into question in the scoping experience because that person was like, well, isn’t it just about finding the right job? And, like, that’s not how Portugal works. The qualifications that you’re bringing, that’s not going to result in those expectations. And this person kind of snubbed me. They’re like, well, I guess I’ll have to find someone who’s capable of making this happen. And I was like, let me know who that person is so I can hire them for myself.

Vanessa: I only work with people who I really believe in, who I think I can make an impact in their lives, and I am very happy to give people their money back if that relationship is not working or if I don’t think I can be of a benefit to you as a client.

Stacy: Yes. You know, I think I laughed so hard because I meet so many Americans, and I would say, like, UK would be looped into this, Canada would be looped into this, but really more Americans who have this idea that because we’re american, we can go anywhere and have anything we want, the way that we want it and when we want it, that is just not how things work. Like, it just isn’t. So having those expectations of curiosity, like, I’m going to go into this opportunity and I’m going to find out, like, what’s realistic and what’s possible and adjust my expectations if I need to. And also, I think, being creative, if you need a salary like that, you probably need to have your own business. It’s going to be really difficult to find that kind of a salary in Portugal.

Stacy: Even physicians don’t even make six figures here. So it’s understanding the country and where you’re going, and you can’t just, like, step into a country and have everything you want served on a platter. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t work that way. You need to be humble and curious and work within the country that you want to live in.
Vanessa: I wanted to emphasize that when you’re moving to a new country, there are trade offs, for better or for worse. And so if you choose to come here to Germany and you want a corporate job, know that anywhere from two to five years of experience, you should budget for somewhere around 60 to €80,000 per year. And we can work towards a hundred thousand euro job, but you better be bringing a hundred thousand euros worth of skills that they don’t currently have here, because you’re competing against native speakers, you’re competing against people who have their entire network here for as long as they’ve been alive. And once you see that the rest of the country is not living on €200,000, but actually, I think the average here is about 45,000 as a country wide average.

Vanessa: So people are below and people are above, you start to understand, people are able to live happy lives here without €200,000 per year. And that’s really what I want to emphasize. We can get you an affordable life that you love out here, where your healthcare is covered, where there’s no gun violence to worry about for yourself or your children. But you’re not going to be taking trips to Mykonos every couple months, or you’re not going to be living at Louis Vuitton. It’s all about what’s important to you. And we try to navigate and figure out what countries serves that with a balanced salary expectation so you can live and not worry about the next stage in your life.

Stacy: Vanessa, that is such a great point on really kind of resetting your expectations and understanding that you may not need to bring in the same amount of salary to live a quality life, and also checking in with your values on what is really important to you. I know for us, were able to come in on what’s called an own income visa. And so I run my business out of the US. It’s legally a us business, but we bring in our own income. It also has some really nice tax benefits with that as well. So we’ve been able to. I’ve been able to keep a really successful business and work within some really cool tax structures as well. So for people that are listening, that are consultants, coaches, service based entrepreneurs, people that are completely remote running their businesses, you know, look into it.

Stacy: Last question before I get information on where people can learn more about you. You have twelve income streams. Tell me about that. Tell me what those are. I’m so curious, and I know listeners will be curious as well.

Vanessa: Yeah, so I actually have 15 now.

Stacy: Okay. Yes, just a little bit more.

Vanessa: So I. We’ll just go down the list. So, my full time job as a tech product manager is my first one. That is my main income stream. And I use this income, or I used to use that income to funnel the rest of my dreams. My second one is wander onwards, which you can see on social media. So there’s like three different streams just in there. But really it’s like sponsored post or I organized a trip to Morocco for my clients and got paid to do that. So we’ll just encompass that into social media. I have my website, Wanderonwards co. Go have a read. It’s fantastic. And on there I have affiliate links which I get a small commission at no extra cost to you for things that I recommend. And I have website ads that are averaging about $500 per month passively.

Vanessa: I have, or I’m a recent angel investor in a med tech startup in the United kingdom. So I’m a director and then once the company goes public where I can share, sell my shares, I’ll be able to recoup investments from that and make a profit. I have my move abroad masterclass. I have Etsy digital downloads for financial tools. I have multiple stock brokerages that I invest my money in and then I get dividends paid out for that. I have my retirement fund in America, which I contribute to as a solo 401K entrepreneur. I have my UK pension, my german pension, my german company pension, and I’m missing some, but I’m missing two more. I can’t really bring them to the top of my head, but you can check on my social media.

Stacy: That you can’t remember all of your revenue streams. I think that’s amazing. Yeah, I send the money my way.

Vanessa: Yeah. I’ll let you know if I ever don’t need any money. But the long term hustle is I will be starting my own tech company in the near future and I can share more information once that’s all been patented and trademarked. But I don’t want to work for anyone after this job. This is the perfect job and I’m going to ride this out until the bitter end. And once the universe says it’s time, I’m going to launch my own tech company and then keep building tech companies for as long as I am able to.

Stacy: I love it. I love, I hope that people are hearing the creativity in how you’re approaching money and work and living because I think for most of us, even as little kids, that is like educated out of us, to be creative and curious and come up with our own way of functioning in the world. So it’s so wonderful. Thank you for sharing about your journey. Vanessa. This has been such a fun conversation. I know you already shared your website and your social media, but maybe just repeat it one more time for listeners so that they can go learn more about you maybe take your move abroad masterclass, follow you on social media. All the goodness.

Vanessa: Could I also add one more thing to follow up the multiple income stream conversation? Because this is where people don’t succeed in the same way. I have five different people working for me currently. That is the only way I am able to manage all of my businesses and my income streams. And I pay them percentages of whatever these products make in order to make sure that they’re happy and comfortable with what they’re doing. And so they continue to empower myself. The message there is you don’t need to do everything. You can be the ideas person and set it up the first time and then find people that you trust that can continue that legacy for you so you can really be open to whatever the world has to give to you at that time.

Stacy: I love that. I thank you for adding that note because I don’t think we talk about that enough. I certainly don’t. Even as we’re recording this, I have Rita on my team that is here to edit things and find amazing clips to share on social media. And I have a team that supports just the general functioning and even my life functioning. I couldn’t function. I really couldn’t function without them. And yeah, thank you for that note, Vanessa. And I do want to tell listeners where to learn more about you and just follow along. And you do have a really robust website as well, so people really should check that out. Yep.

Vanessa: So you can find me on all social platforms at Wander. W a n d e R. Onwards. O n w a r D s. It’s a play on not really having your life completely figured out, but you know that you’re moving forward and you’re just open to experiencing whatever comes your way along the journey. So go check out Wanderonwards Co. Wander onwards on all platforms. And in addition to move abroad content, I have tons of travel content. I used to be like a very dedicated travel blogger that made no money. It was a very expensive hobby. So go enjoy my hundred plus articles, YouTube videos, all about my travels abroad and hopefully you find some inspiration from that.

Stacy: Vanessa, thank you. Thank you. This was so fun and I really appreciate your time today.

Vanessa: Thanks so much for having me, Stacy. I appreciate it, too.