Transcripts for Episode 145

These transcripts were generated by robots, not writers.

Cepee: Once you hit refresh and move abroad, you’re going to continue to hit refresh on your journey abroad. And so you’re still going to have bouts of doubts and insecurities and all of that. So just know that is part of the ride. I see women who understand that what they’re feeling is temporary is something that helps them get through those tough moments and know that you know everything you know. This too, shall pass.

Stacy: Welcome, welcome. I’m really excited about the conversation this week because I get to talk about one of my favorite things, which is how do you take the life that you’re living, where you are, and pick that up and plant it somewhere else? And specifically, we’re going to be talking about how to do that as a woman in your thirties.

Stacy: But certainly because I’m part of this conversation, we’ll also be talking about families and all kinds of different stages of life and what that can look like. And I brought on the exact right person to talk about this today. And I’m going to introduce you today’s guest. So at the age of 35, Sepi Tabibian upended her entire life by selling her belongings and moving to Europe, and since then has never looked back. That sounds familiar to me. Now she teaches other women how to do it, too. Through her community based business, she hit refresh, a global community of over 10,000 women aged 30 plus who want to move abroad. She has even turned her overseas expertise into the digital book. I’m out of here. An American’s ultimate visa guide to living in Europe. So welcome, Cepee. I’m really excited about today’s conversation.

Cepee: Thank you so much, Stacy. So excited to be here on the Beyond Better podcast.

Stacy: It’s especially fun because you’re not very far from me. You’re located in the Malaga area. I’m in the Algarve, the southernmost region of Portugal. So we’re driving distance from each other. And while our countries are similar, they’re also very different in a lot of ways. But I want. We’ll get the chance to talk a little bit more about that, I’m sure, today. But I want to start with how you got to this place that you’re in today where not only are you living this really cool life abroad in Spain, but you’re also helping other women do the same. Specifically women who are over 30, which you and I both know are often not really part of the conversation when it comes to living abroad. It’s often people in their twenties.

Stacy: It’s often single men, specifically, that are kind of moving about the world with this freedom. And I love your message. So tell me a little bit about what brought you to the work you do today and how you help women do the same, right?

Cepee: Yes. Thank you so much. Well, looking back, like on many things we all can say in life, you can connect the dots. Right. It all makes sense. But in the moment, you know, it didn’t really go. This wasn’t a big master plan that I have. I always had the dream to move abroad. That was something, you know, the travel bug bit me at 17 on my first trip overseas, and a few years later, I stumbled upon Spain and loved it. But from 21 to 35, I went back and forth between Spain and the US, trying to make a life here in Spain, work on my terms, and never really could find a way that wasn’t teaching English, that wasn’t what I wanted to do. But fast forward to 35.

Cepee: And I moved abroad, came to Spain, I came to teach English, what I didn’t want to do, but I found a way out of that. And, you know, on my journey, I didn’t feel very supported when I was looking for information, moving at 35, you know, like you mentioned, there just wasn’t a lot of support or resources out there for someone in my demographic. And on top of that, you know, quitting a good job in Austin, Texas. I had a very good life, I like to say. You know, I didn’t let my good life get in the way of a great one. But things were good in Austin, and people thought it was kind of crazy to radically change my life at 35, right? They thought maybe that was something you do when you’re younger. Was I too old? All of those things.

Cepee: So on my journey in Spain, trying to figure out what I was doing with my life, because I had to sort of start over, in a way, I realized that so many of my female friends were asking me how I did it, how I moved abroad. And at the same time, I was meeting so many incredible women in Madrid who had done it, who had moved from all these countries on their own, in their thirties, forties and beyond. And that’s when I just, you know, as you know, I just thought, let me connect them in a Facebook group and let them help each other. And within a year, we had 4000 women in this community. And that’s when I realized, you know what?

Cepee: There’s a gap in the market to help these kind of women make their, and I have air quotes here, make their crazy dream a reality. And since then, it’s just been leaning into what this community needs to support them in making that move abroad.

Stacy: Cepee, so much of what you just said resonates so much with me in a little bit of a different lens, because it’s, you know, we have two kids and my husband, so it’s been us moving our family. And, you know, you made a point of, I think you said, don’t let your good life get in the way of your great life. Something along those lines. Lines. And I got chills when you said that because, I mean, that’s a lot of the message of this podcast is that, yes, you can be grateful, you can have something that’s good. But at least for me, the good that I was living in was handed to me from someone else. It was a blueprint somebody else gave to me, a path somebody else defined for me. And it never really fit fully. Stacy:
And when we made the decision to move abroad, there was a lot that was scary. It was scary and hard. And there definitely weren’t a lot of resources for us either. Certainly, like way back in 2009 when my husband and I first moved, when we didn’t have kids, and then when we moved again when we had kids many years later. And then I think the other piece of this, and this is where I’d love to hear from you, is that there’s a lot of things that you face that are hard when you are choosing a way that is different and will be amazing. And I think even the hardest kind of amazing because you chose the hard.

Stacy: You run into things that are challenging and to your point, you had to build that community to support you through those like the good and the bad. Right. I’d love to hear a little bit from you about some of the obstacles that you’ve faced along the way. And what have you learned from those that could help our viewers and listeners grow with you through those experiences?

Cepee: Yes. Yes. So I would say, you know, I’m someone who kind of makes decisions on a whim, on a gut feeling. I’m not a big planner. So for me, my move abroad was, you know, I always knew I wanted to do it, but when I pulled the plug, I didn’t have a lot of Runway of planning, and so I did it. And I didn’t have a big plan of, like, how it was all going to work out. Yes, I’m going to go to Spain and teach English, and then what’s next? So, you know, making a move abroad that way, I face a lot of challenges, and I kind of teach the women in my community, don’t do it the way I did it. Go with a plan.

Cepee: Because for me, some of the obstacles that I faced was probably the most important one that you need to figure out is, you know, how are you going to stay in this country legally, right. The visa issues is really what I’m getting at. You know, I came on the student visa to teach English. I knew I didn’t want to teach long term, but then, you know, how else was I able? Was I going to be able to stay here? And so I’ve been on a slew of visas. I’ve been on a work visa, on a non lucrative visa on the student visa. But it was always a challenge transitioning from one to the other that, you know, I really had to think about, how am I going to make this work? I’m not 20, right? I’m 35. I’m 36, 37.

Cepee: Like, I want to build a life on my terms, but I need to be practical about that. So that was one thing. And I think hand in hand with that is the work and money. That’s why I always tell people with your plan, understand how you’re going to financially support your. There were times here when I was, you know, getting a visa, losing a visa, trying to figure out that visa piece work, you know, is not always tied to your visa. So how was it going to be able to either find a job in Spain, which is very difficult, or find a remote job which, at the time, remote work wasn’t really a thing. So now the world has changed, and it makes both of these, I think, the visa and the work piece so much easier to figure out.

Cepee: But those were big challenges that I really advise people to figure that out before you make a move. And number three, I think one of the most important things that people need to, I think, consider, and a big obstacle of mine was finding my people. Right. I would say, you know, I’m a very extroverted person, outgoing, and I poured a lot of energy into making friends because that’s what you need to do as an adult, especially when you’re moving on your own to a new country. But I would say it took me about two and a half years to really find those friends that felt like family. I had many acquaintances along the way and people I enjoyed spending time with, but not people I would consider my community. And that took a long time.

Cepee:And, you know, moving abroad, whether you’re alone or, like you with family, it still can be lonely. And when you find your people, I think, like, anywhere, people really make the place, but it takes time to build those kind of communities and friendships.

Stacy: All of what you said. Yes, yes, yes. I think that a couple of things that I’ve noticed for, you know, as somebody who’s been, you know, I’ve lived in four countries outside of the US. You can relate to this. You see people come in, and you see people go. You see people come in with all these, like, yeah, I finally moved here. I moved to Portugal. I moved to Spain. And then it seems like just as quickly as they came, they’re gone, like, six or twelve months later. And the points that you mentioned, I would say, are some of the biggest challenges that people face.

Stacy: I think specifically with an american mentality, we often come into a place with this mindset that, like, we can just go wherever we want and, like, do whatever we want, and, like, it’s all going to just work out, and it just doesn’t. It’s, like, not how the world works. And we definitely learned that in Thailand when we lived there. It was so hard with the visa. There were a lot of reasons we left, but that was part of the equation for us was it felt nearly impossible for us to stay there. We had to leave every three months, the country and come back in. And technically, they could have denied us entry at any point. You know, there were all these things and that process of the visa and, like, really understanding that is so important.

Stacy: And then to your point, I’d love to hear a little bit more about the community piece, because I found. I found the same. Having moved to all these different places, I also lived in two us states. You have to be so intentional and active in cultivating your relationships. And I would say as a mom and a business owner, my challenge has been time. I really have such limited time, and when I’m not working or with my family, I want to exercise. Like, that’s what I like to do with my time. And so having to find creative ways that I can, like, get a hike in and meet up with somebody or, you know, like, how do you invest in that community?

Stacy: I’d love to hear a little bit about the community that you’ve fostered and how has what you offer helped people build that in their local place?

Cepee: Yes. Great question. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, she hit refresh. When I started it was not a business. So it was definitely, you know, connecting people and also connecting me right to my people. I, while she hit refresh is a global community. There were so many incredible women in Madrid that I met through the meetups that I was hosting for she hit refresh. So some of my closest friends here in Spain came from that community, and I would say not even Spain probably now virtually, we can make virtual friends through communities like this. And I see this all the time through she hit refresh that women are connecting. There’s women in the group who want to move abroad and women who have already done so. Right. So I’m seeing women who share in the community.

Cepee: Hey, I live in Boca Raton, Florida, and I want to move to France. And I, you know, there’s someone else in the community who also lives here who wants to move to Portugal, and they meet up in person, and they share those stories with us. And women who, you know, are traveling abroad and know, we call ourselves refreshers. No refreshers from, you know, the virtual community and end up meeting in person. And I think there is so much power when you are looking to move abroad or whether you’ve already done so to connect with people who get you and who validate this dream that you have or the life that you’re living. And so I see that all of the time out there.

Cepee: Now, just going back to your point about being intentional, I think that is 100% true, and you definitely have to make an effort. I say, you know, making friends is kind of like dating. You have to, you know, kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince, and so you really have to say yes to when you get invited to hang out when you don’t want to, or like you said, seek out, you know, those hobbies that are of interest to you, whether that’s hiking or going to a photography meetup and really putting yourself out there, even when you’re tired, even when you don’t want to do it, even if you’re not even sure if you like those people, because, you know, the more you do it, the more you’re going to meet the people that are best suited for you.

Stacy: Yeah. Oh, I couldn’t agree more about the dating piece. And I love that intentionality, focus. I think that’s such a great anchor. Someday I’m going to write a book about all of the strange friendship dates I have had over our many countries because I have some really wild stories of just like, you know, you’re like, sitting in a meetup that you’re like, wow, this is not gonna work out. But, you know, I’ve got another hour or whatever that I gotta see this through. But through those, just like, with dating, you know, I’ve made some of the most amazing friends. And to your .1 of the ways that I feel fill my social cup is through nurturing my relationships with people all over the world. And so getting, you know, I have one of my dearest friends.

Stacy: We have, every two weeks, we have a call on the calendar scheduled because otherwise, you know, it doesn’t happen. One of my very closest friends, we meet up on, like, a digital bike ride, on our bike trainers and talk on the phone at the same time. And then I have lots of friends locally that I meet up with as well. So there’s a lot of ways to have friendships now that, you know, didn’t really exist when we first started this journey. Like you, we first moved abroad in 2009, and it was like, Skype was amazing. But, like, wow, we can Skype. And now we just have so many ways to stay connected. Tell me a little bit about what you’ve seen makes somebody successful in this kind of a big upheaval and transition. Like, what are some of the mindsets?

Stacy: I guess, like, how they approach it from a mindset standpoint, what are some of the practical things that you’ve seen women who are able to make this transition and do it successfully and really plant somewhere abroad?

Cepee: Yes, I love those two parts. It is definitely like, you know, the practical and the mindset. So I’ll start with the practical because I think that’s probably the most obvious, or I think it is, but as I mentioned before, you need to have that plan. So don’t do it on a whim. Don’t do what I did. Go with the plan, because the plan is what is going to help you be successful in this journey. And so I think there are three things that you need for your plan, and one is to just identify what does a dream. What does your dream of moving abroad mean to you or look like to you, right? I mean, I know you and I live in probably the two most popular places that Americans are going right now, Spain and Portugal.

Cepee: But that doesn’t mean that is your dream, right? The listener out there, that doesn’t mean, like, that’s going to be the perfect place for you. What does a move abroad look like for you? Are you sitting by the beach? Are you in a hustle bustle city? Are you learning a new language? You know, do you want to have access to travel? So really write down and get clarity on what it is you want, instead of buying into maybe a dream that, you know, articles are selling you. Number two is what I mentioned before. Figure out your money situation. You know, if you are financially independent, that’s great. There are so many options for you to move abroad, but if not, figure out how you can take a remote job abroad. Do you need to pivot careers? Do you need to become a freelancer?
Cepee: Is that something you want to do? Are you comfortable with that? And the third one is the visa thing. As we mentioned before, you may have your heart set on Iceland, but most people aren’t going to qualify for a visa for Iceland. So I would say, you know, find another country. So that’s just to say the country you want to go to make sure there’s a viable path for you to go there. Those are going to be the keys of, you know, those are the foundational parts of your plan to move abroad. And then from a mindset standpoint, I think it’s really important to understand that a move abroad isn’t going to solve everything or change everything, right? You know, that saying that everyone says, you know, where we go, there you are. Where you go, there you are.

Cepee: You know, I think a move abroad, to some extent, really can give you a very different perspective on life. For me, I think I’m a very positive person. But Austin, Texas, wasn’t doing it for me as much as I tried. It just wasn’t my place in the world. And moving to Madrid really did give me a different feeling towards life. I mean, just by changing my environment, that changed a lot for me. But still, you know, I’m still bringing my insecurities, my stressors, all of that with me. So just know that your move abroad is still going to come with ups and downs, you know, the anxiety, the doubt, the uncertainty you even have about making your decision to move abroad. You’re constantly, I say hitting refresh. Is that’s what we say here in refresher world.

Cepee: Once you hit refresh and move abroad, you’re going to continue to hit refresh on your journey abroad. And so you’re still going to have bouts of doubt and insecurities and all of that. So just know that is part of the ride. I see women who understand that what they’re feeling is temporary is something that helps them get through those tough moments and know that you know everything. You know, this, too shall pass.

Stacy: Yeah. So much. So much resonates about that. I think one piece that has really supported us in our many moves has been the removal of judgment about choices that we make and an openness to a new choice. A lot of times I think it’s easy to go, oh, I’m making this big decision and, like, this is life changing and everything’s gonna, you know, either better, different, whatever, and you can get there, like we did when we moved to Thailand and go, oh, this is actually not like, what I wanted. And for us, weren’t ready to go back to the US, but we knew that our choice was not aligned and so we made a different one. And we did that with no shame. I think you could easily feel like, oh, man, how embarrassing. We moved.

Stacy: We made this big deal about moving this place. We did all this stuff and now we’re going to come back and do it again. But then I think, like, you have to approach those hardships that you mentioned with, like, as much objectivity as you can, but also some patience and, like, a willingness to be outside of your comfort zone as well. For us in Thailand, we had a lot of dangerous situations and that’s what ultimately led us to leave. In Portugal, we’ve had a lot of hardships like most people do in just, like, living this life thing. You know, we come up on things that are hard, but I think we’ve been able to approach them from a feeling of, like, just like, an openness and curiosity of, like, what’s to come and what we’re experiencing.

Stacy: Then the other piece, just from a really practical element, because I’m a highly practical person. So I love that we talked about that. Just being willing to hire some help if you can afford it. So we got an attorney to help with our visa process. We’ve had translation support, you know, lots of support. Just hiring here. And that has made all the difference for us. We didn’t do that as much in Thailand. We didn’t realize that you could, like, hire an attorney to do your visa paperwork for you. And that has been a drastic difference for us. I would think that something like your community and the information that you offer could also be a way to shortcut some of that, like the hardships.

Cepee: Totally. I mean, you mentioned two things there that I just love. I think you really hit the nail on the head. One, yes, if you can afford it, pay people to accelerate or to do something that, you know, can take that burden and time off of your plate. I definitely have paid lawyers to help me with my visas here and in other parts of my life. I’ve hired experts to help me. Right. To get to someplace faster, figure something out, and definitely, would she hit refresh? I mean, we help women understand exactly what they need to do to move abroad. And there’s, you know, a slew of resources that we have from, you know, the book that I wrote about, you know, finding a visa for Europe.

Cepee: You know, don’t, you don’t have to spend hours googling how to do it to, you know, our blog and YouTube and everything. So there’s a lot of resources out there. And I think the other thing you mentioned that I think is so beautiful is to, you know, when you mentioned that making decisions without, you know, letting go of the judgment of others, because I think, and I just gave a talk at Ted last week about this, about how when we’re abroad, we’re free to choose our own identity and kind of free to choose this path. And we don’t have to be forced into the conventional path that were so conditioned to be in, especially, you know, I would say in the US, that’s what I know.

Cepee: And so when you’re abroad, it’s okay to play with your life and play with your identity and make different choices and change your mind. I mean, that’s, it’s okay at any point in your life. But I think when you remove yourself from your comfort zone, you really feel that freedom to make choices and not have your community there, your family and friends on your back, judging every move you’re making. And I think there’s so much liberation in that. And I know in my life and my journey in Spain, I’ve been able to radically change my life here in many ways that I couldn’t in the US because I had that freedom to choose without feeling the judgment of others.

Stacy: You brought up a couple of memories for me, and I think anybody who has moved abroad or done slow travel, like, extensive travel in a place, can resonate with this. But I’ve had those moments in our various travels and countries where it’s, like, just a moment where you kind of, like, are aware of, like, you have this, like, layer of awareness, like, oh, look where I am, and, like, look what I’m doing. And just kind of, like a joy in the choices that led you to the place that you are. I have this one very core memory. It was a long time ago when were living in Vietnam, and when I started my business, I was trying to be a travel writer, which, like, PSA, that’s not a great way to make money, but I didn’t know that at the time.

Stacy: And so I was also trying to do travel photography with it. And I had gotten up really early one morning. It was, like, just at dawn. And I went out into Ho Chi Minh City, which at the time had about 12 million people. So it’s normally very busy. But at the time I arrived, there was nobody there because I wanted to get pictures of these different buildings without people all over them. And I remember just, like, walking through these quiet, early dawn streets and just being like, wow, I’m here in this place doing the thing.

Stacy: And, you know, it didn’t matter exactly that, like, everything wasn’t perfectly how I wanted it at that exact moment, but it was just that I was in that moment and that I had made choices that got me to this place that was very different from anything that I knew growing up. I’m wondering if you’ve had a moment like this, sepi, or many moments, is there something that comes to mind for you of, like, that moment of awareness of. I refresh, like, I hit refresh, like, I’m in this place. And what was that like for you? Cepee:
Definitely, yes. When you asked that core memory came up for me, and it was when, you know, as I mentioned, kind of the visa struggles here. I had been hired at a spanish company, got a work visa with that, and I hated the job, and I quit, and I lost the work visa because it was tied to that job. And after. Shortly after that, I had some struggles, but I got my first remote job, and that was 2017, when remote work, you know, still wasn’t as ubiquitous as it is now. And I got the remote job, and I said, you know what? I’m gonna hit the road. So for five weeks, I did a solo trip.

Cepee: I was already living in Spain, but I did a solo trip through Croatia, Germany, Switzerland and Italy, taking my job with me, which I thought was the coolest thing ever that I could do. And in my mind, I mean, I just remember sitting there. I was in Slovenia, too. I remember sitting in a cafe in Ljubljana with my laptop. It was, like, noon and just feeling like, you know, like I did it. I made it like that. For me, that was making it in life, like, untethering my life in the way I had always dreamed of. But it just seemed so elusive. And there I was, sitting there, you know, at noon, working in a cafe in this country I’d never been to before. It was fabulous. It was so liberating and so validating to see that I had made the dream a reality.

Stacy: That’s so beautiful. So I know there’s somebody listening to this that’s like, yes, please. But maybe they’re back where were before we started this journey, and they’re really not sure how to make this dream that they have a reality of living abroad. And it very much could be the woman in her thirties, or it could be, you know, a family or it could be a retired couple, or it could be, you know, any range of people. What advice would you give to somebody who is, you know, on the cusp of making this decision? They’re like, you know, not sure, but they have this dream and they’re feeling nervous. What would you give them as encouragement and, like a first step that they could take? Cepee:
Yes. So first, some words of encouragement. One, you might feel like this move abroad or this idea of yours is crazy, and that’s probably because you don’t have a lot of examples or maybe people, you know, that have done this, but just know there are thousands of women just like you out there who have done this. So I would say, you know, you’re not alone. Other people are doing this every day. And it’s not crazy. It’s actually something that’s quite normal for a lot of people out there. But I think what’s really important for you, if listener out there is to find your community. You know, she hit refresh. Great community. But find whatever community resonates with you. Because in that community, you’re going to find people who also want to do what you want to do and who are doing that.

Cepee: And that kind of validation, support, inspiration is going to help you along your path when you hit those road bumps, when your family and friends are telling you what you’re doing is crazy. You have a community to turn to that says, no, you’re not. I’m doing it, and I have no regret. So I think that’s one of the key things. I think another piece of encouragement is that, you know, there’s nothing wrong with teaching English abroad, but I always like to say, you know, you can move abroad on your terms. You do not have to teach English abroad if you don’t want to. I think a lot of people feel like they have to give up their career.

Cepee: They have to give up everything they’ve, you know, worked so hard for, and they have to move abroad, and it’s going to be a struggle, or it’s going to be in a way that doesn’t suit them, and you don’t have to do that. The world has really changed in terms of visa options and remote work opportunities, so you can really make a move abroad on your terms as kind of first steps. Again, back to that plan. So figure out where you want to go and why. Figure out your finances and figure out your visa if you need help. I actually have a four day bootcamp that I run that’s happening this fall again, and it’s a really easy lift for y’all. It’s dollar 37, and it’s live.

Cepee: And I walk you through those foundational steps to see, you know, how you can make it work for you. But those are the key things. You know, find that community, know that you can do this. It’s totally possible you can do it on your terms and then get those next steps into place, and you’ll feel so much more secure about making this decision. Stacy:
So much goodness there, Cepee. We’ll be sure to link to that bootcamp in the show notes. You know, I love your so many rich points that you made, and I think one of the pieces I’d love to expand on a little bit is just this idea of that you have to give everything up or everything has to drastically change to be able to do something, to do this move abroad thing. I think the other layer to that is this mindset of I’m too anchored or I’m too something. What is the to I’m too x or two y in your life? I know for us, we had really small kids when we first moved, they were three and five.

Stacy: And I think now I look back, I’m like, wow, that was really brave, because now my kids are seven and ten, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe that we did that. But at the time, I think we just were at a place where we’re like, okay, we can finally make this leap. And all these things that seem like roadblocks, we’re just going to embrace them and we’re going to find our way forward. I think the other piece is, you know, building a location, independent business like I’ve very intentionally built. That’s something that so many people are capable of and especially people who have built professional expertise. I know you mentioned that piece of it.

Stacy: But I don’t want to take us too far on a tangent on the practical piece because I’d love to hear you talk a little bit about this. Like, I’m too, and I know in your world, I’m too old, right? I’m too anchored. I’m too fill in the blank. How do you see that show up? And how do people combat that mindset of being limited, not able to make that leap into the next thing?

Cepee: What a great question. Yes. I mean, I think you mentioned the two big ones is I’m too old, it’s too late. Those come up all the time. And I’m working with women not only in their thirties, but thirties, forties, fifties and beyond. So those are the two ones. Also, people feel like I’m not rich enough or I don’t have enough money. Right. So that’s another one. My company’s not going to transfer me. So it’s kind of like a job thing. Like I don’t have the right job to do. So. And another one is going to be the debt piece, which actually is, you know, is a real anchor. People who are like, I can’t go because I have this debt. And I would say to be able to combat those, I mean, the too old, too late.
Cepee: I think we’ve talked about that a few times already. It’s just not so no matter what age you are. I mean, when I look back, when I made my move at 35, for me, that was what my limiting belief was like, oh, my God, I’m 35. I’m so old to do this now. I’m 43. I was like, I wish I was 35 again. That was so young when I look back. And so no matter age, you are right now, trust me, in 510 years, you’re going to look back and be like, I was so young. So you’re never too old. It’s not too late. And then people, you know, think that they need to be rich to move abroad. You don’t need to be rich to move abroad. You need to have some savings and you need to be financially secure.

Cepee: But this is not a rich person’s game. It can be and it helps, but it doesn’t have to be. So just understand that also your cost of living is probably going to go down in most places that you’re looking to move to if you’re leaving the US. And then the debt one, I think that is a really valid one. And again, like everything I’ve mentioned, you need to have a plan to pay that off. You can definitely move abroad with debt. I mean, I move with credit card debt, people move with college debt, but just have a plan for paying that off. Right. How are you going to support yourself abroad and still take care of your debt? Oh, and the other one I had mentioned is kind of the work piece.

Cepee: People sometimes think I can only move abroad if I get transferred with my work or there’s no way for me to find a job abroad. Again, with the world changing remote, work is much more tangible for people. I will be honest, it is hard to find a company that’s going to let you work from abroad. You know, a us based company, that can be hard, but there are solutions to that, whether that’s becoming a freelancer, a contractor, using a third party company. But I would say a lot of those, anytime, you know, those butts come up for you, a lot of times those are just going to be limiting beliefs and not real blockers to your move abroad. So really dig underneath of, you know, what. What is it that I’m really afraid of? Cepee:
Really, it’s just fear coming up that’s trying to hold you back from moving out of your comfort zone.

Stacy: There’s always a way. This is what I know that’s also probably my american mindset. So I don’t always believe that doors are always going to open for me and like a red carpet rolled out. Definitely don’t believe that. But I always, I have found along this journey that, like, sometimes you have to go off the path around the corner and do a little U turn and come back, but there’s always a way to get to where you want to go. And you don’t have to be in a perfect spot for anything, really, to your point. But you do need a plan, I think that’s such an important piece, hopefully. I mean, we had a very, very well thought, Asana organized plan when we moved.

Stacy: And we had to, because we had a family and kids and schools, we had spreadsheets, you know, we did all the things and I just, that piece of it. The plan is so important. It’s creating the plan, making it time bound, having clear things to execute along the way, and checking in along the way as well, and adjusting where needed. Sepi, this has been such a great conversation. I know you have a lot to offer on your online resources. You have your bootcamp coming up. Can you please tell our listeners where they can learn more about you and engage with the work that you do?

Cepee: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. This has been fabulous. So if anyone is, if any women over 30 are interested in moving abroad, please head to the she hit refresh website. You’ll find tons of resources there. Join my free Facebook community. You’re going to meet over 10,000 like minded women there. And then, of course, yeah, sign up for the next bootcamp. You can find that information on the website and in the community. We’re going to pick it up in the fall. Then, you know, go to Instagram TikTok and get some more inspiration and information on how you, too can make this move abroad a reality.

Stacy: Well, thank you so much, Sepi. I really enjoyed our conversation. And I want to say a big thank you to Rita Dominguez for producing the podcast, Katherine Fishman for all the project management support, and Kim Foster for making sure that everything that goes out into the world is typo free. I appreciate all of you. And, Cepee, I so appreciate your time today and just sharing so much valuable information with our audience.

Cepee: Likewise, Stacy, it was such a pleasure. Thank you.